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Blackmail by 'professionals"?

Discussion in 'Business of Diving Institute' started by Indah, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. Zef

    Zef Divemaster

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    How many other examples have you witnessed in the ensuing 28 years?

    -Z
     
    Kharon likes this.
  2. Zef

    Zef Divemaster

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    Do you equate "asking" as demanding"?

    Just asking for clarity....I live in a french speaking country and the french translation of "to ask" is "demander".

    -Z
     
  3. Marie13

    Marie13 Great Lakes Mermaid ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Great Lakes
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    Quite a number. I used tp spend a lot of time in downtown Chicago. The sailors just graduating bootcamp at Great Lakes Naval Training Station (it’s the only US Navy bootcamp for those who don’t know) would come downtown with visiting family. I’d see sailors asking bus divers for a fare discount. Same thing in restaurants and even at Marshall Field’s (now Macy’s).

    But most of the time, I see those who say they are veterans demanding discounts at restaurants and such. Don’t know if they are actual veterans. Just know what I’ve witnessed.

    And a good many do get pissy and start demanding when at first they are refused.
     
  4. Saniflush

    Saniflush ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

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    As a veteran I would be downright embarrassed if I witnessed that and I do believe that I would have a hard time keeping my mouth from informing them as to it.
     
    cerich, Schwob and Zef like this.
  5. JackD342

    JackD342 Dive Shop

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Highland Park, IL
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    My shop is handy to Great Lakes, and I get some traffic on Rocket Fins etc. because of it.
    Only had the negative interaction once, when a young recruit went the route of trying to shame me into a discount. But did not demand as such...
     
  6. Neilwood

    Neilwood Loggerhead Turtle

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Scotland
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    To my mind, no matter who or what you are, asking for a discount is a right and can quite often get a decent return. Just as to ask for a discount is a right, so it is the right of the business to refuse to provide your request. Formation of a contract in its simplest terms -
    "Can I buy X?"
    "yes you can for $Y"
    "Any chance of getting a discount?"
    "No" or "yes" depending how inclined the business person is.

    Asking for a discount is just good negotiation imho. Don't ask and you don't get. Ask and who knows what you might get. Both the customer and business have the right to decide how they operate.

    It should be noted that I am not a business owner but having worked for a number of contractors in the building industry I am well aware of business decisions.
    Demanding a discount on the other hand is not a right (unless it is stated in the businesses' published terms and conditions - " The company provide discounts to the following groups - veterans, emergency personnel,... "). Even where stated in the terms and conditions, there is normally a statement to the extent that "the company reserve the right to change the terms and conditions at any time". As soon as anyone demands a discount, that changes the dynamic of the negotiation and it is in the rights of the company to refuse the discount or even refuse to supply the item at all.

    In my construction experience, I would be inclined to walk away from a client who demanded discounts as they are probably someone who will nickel and dime me all the way along instead of paying the going rate.
     
    Barnaby'sDad, Zef and Kharon like this.
  7. The Chairman

    The Chairman Chairman of the Board

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    Location: Cave Country!
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    Discounts are like free shipping: a fairly common marketing device. WIth words like "demand" and "ask" being bandied about, it's important to note that there is precious little difference between the two. If you're negotiating a price, you may not go if you don't like the resulting price if there is no discount. Your "ask" is really a polite demand for you to do business with them. Depending on your culture, not asking for a discount could mean you're just an easy mark. Of course, the opposite could be true and you get butt hurt when someone demands a discount. Meh. Put on your big girl/boy panties and deal with it logically. Don't let your emotions turn into a petty action. I don't have a problem if you ask or demand a discount. I don't have a problem if you choose to either acquiesce or reject any request or demand.

    What I find offensive is the idea that anyone would threaten to harm a business because they didn't get a discount. It's one thing to not recommend them, but an entirely different matter to threaten to lie about a resort or chase potential customers away in order to obtain that discount. That's simple extortion and it happens a lot. In fact, if we have removed a lot of problematic reviews here where a diver is attempting to harm business over such as this. How do we know? The op usually sends us a PM or email where the extortionist makes their demands. Oh, how they whine when we remove their crap. Almost always they claim we're violating their first amendment rights. Too bad, so sad. We will neither aid or abet your attempts to extort or exact revenge.

    To recap:
    • It's OK to ask for a discount
    • It's OK to demand a discount
    • It's OK to refuse any requests or demands for a discount
    • It's OK not to go if you don't like the price or how you feel you're being treated
    • It's NOT OK to threaten or otherwise attempt to extort a business to obtain that discount.
    • In all things, be ethical
     
  8. ontdiver

    ontdiver Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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    We are awash in cheap shots and entitlement these days and this is a good example. It is very much in line with the nasty and generally undeserving reviews of hotels and restaurants by individuals who really should just stay at home and watch cable TV.

    It would be nice to hear from anyone who has been to Indah's resort/dive operation. I somehow suspect they are nice, hard working folks.
     
    Kharon and shoredivr like this.
  9. MaxBottomtime

    MaxBottomtime Divemaster

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Torrance, CA
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    They're. :)
     
    happy-diver, Zef, shoredivr and 2 others like this.
  10. caydiver

    caydiver Manta Ray

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    Most of the DMs I know travel with a lower card so they can dive as regular people (we bring our Nitrox cards and that’s it). Our dive community here is small and we give a discount to locals but they don’t get all the services including pick up and drop off and realize they may get booted last minute if we need their space. The situation here has gotten so out of hand with who is local in terms of having a part time residence that places that used to be fine with a Drivers License are not asking for a local health insurance card to prove this is where you are based. Cannot ever remember have that with me going diving. Really sad that this is what it has come to but in fairness if ops were making buckets off money it wouldn’t be an issue. We offer discounts and even free dives to customers who have been with us for a long time and who feel deserve it. It goes on their invoice at the end of their trip. It is meant as a Thank You not a come on. When I go elsewhere I want to be a customer not crew even though I don’t mind moving tanks, gear whatever. We don’t get big groups so that doesn’t apply. Why anyone should think they are entitled is beyond my comprehension. Really interesting thread.
     

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