Blowing off Steam

[uncfnp]

Ladders (and lifts).
Other than when you have a student, or an inexperienced buddy. The general rule is; first to the ladder; first up.
This is based on safety and practicality.
Being under a ladder on a pitching boat is not a safe place to be, so no dilly dallying, get out ASAP.
It also means the exit point is made vacant as soon as practical for other divers. Minimising congestion.

Exit and entry points are dangerous areas. Keep them clear.
(I still have the dent in my skull from a cylinder (and diver) that landed on me.)

I, and I think Lorenzoid as well, are talking about dives in relatively benign conditions when you have the luxury of courtesy. Boarding under challanging conditions are of necessity handled differently.

But either way, no one should be hanging beneath the ladder before boarding and that is not what we are talking about.

 

[AdivingBel]

Recently I dove with a group that included some real old fashion style gentlemen. First time or two that they indicated I should board ahead of them it made me feel a bit like I was cutting line. But I adapted.

Some of us just like being underwater and are stretching out their dive time (not under the ladder)... even on a safety stop. Guilty...

 

[Kimela]

I've never been called a "lady diver", and my husbands says he's never heard the term. Maybe it's the area you're located? This jerk was rude for making the comment about your not being able to handle the weight. A guy could have fallen just as easily. Shore entries can be tricky, yes?

I'm old enough that it's more acceptable for me to set aside the social justice warrior in me and allow ANYONE (man, woman or child) to help schlep my gear. (I'm sure my daughter would not approve!)

 

[morecowbells]

I have encountered some paternal and condescending behavior from male divers, but very little. One creep on the boat asked me how I liked the idea of him opening a dive op called 'Muff Divers'. Fortunately, I have encountered far more gentlemen than creepers. I imagine the ratio is different in other parts of the world where women are not treated with respect or equality. It would be interesting to hear the perspective from female dive masters and guides. I have the feeling that my encounters are 'G' rated walk in the park compared to their experiences of leading and guiding dives.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

OMG!
I guess I can't even offer to help the example of the woman who fell in the surf and is getting battered by the waves. She will be offended. Of course, now I am treating the woman differently than a man because I would go to help him.

The world is getting too complicated for this older guy

This is why I only solo dive now on abandoned beaches.

 

[EvaFin]

Once a woman stops getting those offers of 'help', would that be a great relief...or a sign? Be careful what you wish for, as the ancient Chinese proverb warns.

It would be a relief. And unless I have misunderstood you're talking about changing your behaviour based on whether you find someone hot or not. In a thread about objectification and sexism.

That's a shame.

 

[Gareth J]

EvaFin

I don't know how much UK diving you are doing. You may well be out doing me for UK dives this year.

My general feeling is that most British divers, are a good lot, sometimes a bit rough around the edges, but generally good humoured and helpful.
You will find the odd jerk, but they tend to get a hard time from the rest of the boat if they don't wind it in.
There are some very good clubs in London, if you are looking for people to dive with.

Basically, if someones taking liberties tell them to take a running jump, you'll get a lot of support from everyone else.
(Rather like you have here).


Gareth

 

[Wingy]

Maybe I can shed a little light. Even here in the 21st century, the hurdles for women in science and engineering are higher than they are for men. Those hurdles are higher yet again for minorities. So being proud to be a Latina engineer is being proud of what they have achieved in spite of having had the sh*t kicked out of them at every turn along the way. For them, it may well have been achieving a dream that was next to impossible.

This is the second time in a week I've heard this "misconception" about women in engineering. I ran a program to increase women's presence in engineering 12 years ago, were perfectly capable. I do recall a Harvard (?) professor stating women did not have the aptitude for a career in maths, engineering and science...I believe that little statement cost millions. My international students in classes all came from Europe and Asia with a few African girls over the 4 years I ran the program. So I do think there is a difference in European and US attitudes. What I'm not getting is why are women suddenly so angry and on the attack if a guy so much as holds open a door.
I've done some spectacular tumbled exits in Tulumben on those bloody pebbles....no one helped me until they'd all finished laughing. Is it really that much of a big deal?

How much do you want men to stay away from you? Ahh ooops she's in a downcurrent but I can't possibly touch her lest I be accused of molesting her? I'd at least reach out a hand to try and grab another diver caught in a current but I'm not dying for them....I wonder how many lady divers are sitting peeling Posiedon grapes lamenting they didn't grab that hand...probably an equal amount of guys who felt taking assistance from a female would be either emasculating or likely to lead to court? I didn't render assistance your honour, I was worried I would be accused of groping.

Btw - if you've graduated as an engineer come down to Aus. Women that were my students are working onshore, offshore on rigs, overseas, running a 20,000km road network 1000km from the nearest town. I'm proud of them for where they pushed on to not because they're women.

 

[aquacat8]

Come, come, now boys, we all know the difference between help and humiliation, between friendly banter and cruel mocking, between courtesy and condescension, don’t we? It’s not that difficult. As for you @Eric Sedletzky, if I saw you emerging solo from a wild beach wearing your fabulous handmade backplate, I would undoubtedly chat you up— hopefully you wouldn’t feel too harassed ;-)

 

[RyanT]

This is the second time in a week I've heard this "misconception" about women in engineering. I ran a program to increase women's presence in engineering 12 years ago, were perfectly capable.

Perhaps (I hope) things are different in Australia. As a scientist (biologist) who spends a lot of time working in the US and Latin America, and working with engineers, I can assure you this is not a "misconception." I could tell you tons of stories, or better, have my Latina colleagues tell you their stories about how their paths to professional careers were much harder than those of their male colleagues. As one example, in a particular research lab I know of, male students were always given letters of recommendation as they transitioned out of the lab looking for jobs. Female students got a letter only if they became the principle investigator's "girlfriend."