Boat Advice?

[Akimbo]

I am working with the Monterey Bay Veterans to develop a dive boat for disabled vets and can use some advice. The Freedom is a twin screw Pacifica 50' (15.2M) sports fisherman that has been used on fishing trips for disabled vets.

There is an aft-deck head (bathroom for landlubbers) that has been effective for the wheelchair bound vets. An onboard air and Nitrox system is being installed now. There is a small inflatable aboard that can be used for a chase boat.

One of the biggest physical obstacles we hope to mitigate is ingress and egress. The current concept is essentially a hydraulic powered swim step that moves between deck level and 4'/1,219mm below waterline. We are also considering a powered lift for divers who prefer to jettison their gear before boarding. We are trying to optimize the vessel for the different disabilities as possible. Any suggestions are appreciated.

 

[nicolas coster]

Hi ,
WE at Welcome To The Challenges Foundation Website started in 1983 with an old(1947) Huckins 52 which I had restored. "Bagarre"was used to develop the standards for the HSA of which I was an original instructor member.
The cockpit space was small, so we installed a mast with a boom with which we lifted the divers our of the water and into the cockpit..Others since, have done a variation on that by installing at little cost, a davit aft to do the same thing.
Subsequently I restored and re-fitted a 58' Monk with an open transom door with swim step at water line, then an elevator (with a simple 12 volt motor to life wheelchairs from the cockpit to the observation deck...also head and shower which could be rolled into in a wheelchair...We ran that boat (and over 140 challenged divers in 10 years). Western Star, she was called and can still be seen in the movie on Challenges Foundation website. Hope this helps...any further questions, do contact me..Also our Wounded Veterans scuba section is now run by Lt.Col U.S.A.R.(Ret), Mel Pasley of Disabled Veterans Scuba Project...We now specialize in Wounded Veterans (men and women) Sailing Project...I still scuba dive, but on a more limited basis.
Best
Nicolas Coster
President and Founder,
Challenges Foundation
Welcome To The Challenges Foundation Website

 

[Akimbo]

Nicolas

Did you provide a harness for lifting your divers? We are looking at the single-point lift option as well. We think it will be used primarily for equipment jettisoned in the water, but also as a backup to the adjustable swim step. I understand that the disabled divers physical injuries range from back and neck injuries to quad-amputees. Obviously, that makes using a ladder even for backup somewhere between dangerous and impossible. We are also working on designs for chairs that can be secured to the swim step and submerged.

Some of the diver propulsion vehicles are showing a lot of promise for many of these divers so handling them is also part of the design problem. Do you have any stills of your lifting system?

 

[Darnold9999]

Don't know if this is any help, but Gods Pocket's dive boat has a fairly simple elevator that might work for what you are trying to do:

God's Pocket Resort - Boat Elevator - YouTube

 

[Akimbo]

Thanks. We have been studying a number of lifts both in the UK and North America. The larger issue is making them useful for divers with a broad range of disabilities.

 

[pasley]

I have used the sling pictured here on dive boats that did not have hoist to dive with divers who were paraplegic and quadriplegic as well as one double above the knee amputee.
The website here as more information: GimpGear Comfort Carrier Sling | Enablemart.com It features handles at the knees, waist and shoulders allowing assistants to grab equipment and not theindividuall with theinherentt risk of dislocating a shoulder or tearing a rotator cup
.

 

[Akimbo]

This design project is very interesting on many levels. Between posts here and meeting with people experienced working with the disabled, I realize how woefully we underestimated the importance and difficulty of wheelchair transfers. Once the weight of diving gear, cold hands, everything wet, and a rolling deck at sea are added to the equation, the problems and hazards are many times worse than in a rehab or hospital room.

It is becoming increasingly apparent that several overheard lifting mechanisms will be required, especially when dealing with fully suited-up divers who might also have a DPV attached to their cylinder. None of these are especially difficult to provide if the requirements are fully appreciated during the design process. Thanks for the comments.

We had considered that all divers who could not climb a ladder should wear a rescue/recovery harness so they could be brought aboard if/when the lift failed — something I believe in for all divers anyway, probably influenced by my commercial diving background. I am now investigating a system employing a single multi-purpose davit that can:

• Be used for general-purpose transfers on the aft deck
• Transfer to/from a dressing chair secured to the deck similar to the stools that commercial divers use. It would allow tenders to walk completely around the diver and support the weight of gear while dressing.
• Transfer to/from a chair on the lift/swim-step
• Recover gear removed in the water. There are a number of divers with injuries that allow them to climb a ladder, but not with the added burden of cylinders and weight belts. There are also cases where the able-bodied buddy diver will carry a lot of extra gas who might prefer removing cylinders before boarding.
• The aft deck is fairly small so there is a limit to the number of able-bodied people we can depend on to assist when things go wrong with a diver, able-bodied or disabled.
• To elevate the platform/swim-step to deck level if/when the normal powered system fails.
• Like many parts of the world, Northern California seas can get pretty sloppy without much warning. There are a lot of times I wish that set of doubles were not on my back when climbing back aboard.

So, what do you think of this approach?

 

[pasley]

For payalyzed vertans we normally remove the gear in the water and gear up either on the swim step or in the water. Gearing up ont the swim step allows us to put the gear on with them laying on a pad (never set a paralyzed diver on a hard surface to avoid pressure sores) and then rotate their feet over the edge and then roll them off the step into the water and the waiting arms of their dive buddies (HSA Interntional certified).

Only about 200 servicemen have been paralyzed in the current Iraq/Afghanistan conflict. Many more have lost limbs (usally 2 limbs or more). So the questionn is how many potential "customers" do you have in the area to use the boat for SCUBA in the area you would draw individuals from? Then from that number you can look at how much modificaiton is cost justified. Much can be done with what you already have. A lifining device is always nice if available to haul personnel and/or equipment. Keep in mind individuals with paralyzis may not have adomial muscles and so stability in the lift will need to be externally supplied.

Your proposals look good and and you already know that working with indivuduals with paralyzis or missing limbs in the ocean is not the same as in a hospital setting. Key component is of course the crew/assistants to ensure they are trained by HSA (celebrating 31 years) so they know how to move individuals with out hurtting themselves or the individual concerned. We learned that just moving one paralyzed individual by an untrained but well intentioned helper a few feet without dive boots on caused a sore (scrape) that in a paralyzed individual took months to heal (circulation is poor in paralyzed limbs and the healing process takes longer). So training is important.

The Gods Pocket elevator looks good.

 

[Akimbo]

Questions: :questionmark:

… Gearing up on the swim step allows us to put the gear on with them laying on a pad (never set a paralyzed diver on a hard surface to avoid pressure sores) and then rotate their feet over the edge and then roll them off the step into the water and the waiting arms of their dive buddies (HSA International certified)….

That is how they made the dive with David Riley (quad amputee), but the boat was a Newton 42 with a huge integral swim-step and no transom above deck. If you look close you can see the transom door in photo of the Freedom (first post). We have to deal with 27" wide transom access. A ~4' deep swim-step like the Newton and removing the transom above deck would be a $tructural nightmare on the Freedom.

:questionmark:
Given the adjustable height swim step (deck to -4'), vessel layout, and sea conditions; dressing onboard and transferring seems more practical — unless we are missing something??? I personally wouldn’t want to gear-up on this boat’s swim-step in these seas.

The plan is to launch and recover the disabled diver with his buddy at the same time. The only in-water prep would be the option of latching or releasing a seat-belt. Crew can don & doff fins (from the buddy or both) while divers are seated. We figured the buddy would be first-on and off the platform.

:questionmark:
Interesting point on hard surfaces. Since divers will be in 7mm wetsuits or drysuits with insulation suitable for 50° F water, do you think that would that be enough padding?

…Only about 200 servicemen have been paralyzed in the current Iraq/Afghanistan conflict. Many more have lost limbs (usually 2 limbs or more). So the question is how many potential "customers" do you have in the area to use the boat for SCUBA in the area you would draw individuals from?….

The objective is to support all vets with difficulty diving, even if their limitations occurred as a civilian years after service or simply from age. There may even be some trips for able-bodied vets if boat time and funds are available, much like when the boat was used for sport fishing.

…Your proposals look good and you already know that working with individuals with paralysis or missing limbs in the ocean is not the same as in a hospital setting. ….

Thanks, but slowly learning is more accurate.

… Key component is of course the crew/assistants to ensure they are trained by HSA (celebrating 31 years) so they know how to move individuals without hurting themselves or the individual concerned. We learned that just moving one paralyzed individual by an untrained but well intentioned helper a few feet without dive boots on caused a sore (scrape) that in a paralyzed individual took months to heal (circulation is poor in paralyzed limbs and the healing process takes longer). So training is important.

The Gods Pocket elevator looks good.

I am working on the engineering and construction end of this program while volunteers in Monterey are managing training and support. Monterey is about 270 miles south of here and I don’t have hands-on experience or frequent face-to-face contact. I am heading down later this week and would like to have some designs worth critiquing, in addition to taking some precise dimensions to work with. Thanks for helping make me a little less ignorant for the meetings!

:questionmark:
Do you think we should put head protection on them when moved by a davit or would a 7mm hood suffice? I suppose we could go as far as a face-covered motorcycle helmet. They will still be wearing gloves at that point so the rest of their skin should be protected from abrasions. This is really the other volunteer’s area, but they may not have considered it unless they worked with a boat-mounted davit or A-frame at sea before. I am sure at-sea testing before taking disabled divers out will teach us a lot, but I would rather find mistakes now.

We had considered designs for lifting the disabled diver while strapped into the swim-step chair, or wheeling it, on and off the platform. The concept was rejected to reduce cycle time on the platform, especially on recovery operations.

:questionmark:
Do you have any thoughts on using, or sources for, lift harnesses? We are discussing a single-point lifting ring similar to commercial diving harnesses. The D-ring would probably be on a longer strap so the snap shackle could connect above the head. We considered two shoulder D-rings but the BC or cylinder harness would interfere. Unlike a commercial diver’s harness, a true parachute-style double leg strap crotch strap should probably be used.

:questionmark:
I have been playing with seat designs. I can see a short horn, maybe 3-6" in diameter, that able-bodied divers can wrap their legs around would help stabilize them in the water. The horn would be short enough they could just stand up or swim off. Would a horn like that be in the way of a disabled diver? I was especially wondering if you strap legs together on paraplegics in dive-mode? If so, a horn would interfere. I guess it could be made retractable if the idea works in testing at all.

 

[pasley]

Questions: :questionmark:
....We have to deal with 27" wide transom access. A ~4' deep swim-step like the Newton and removing the transom above deck would be a $tructural nightmare on the Freedom.

When I wrote the comment about gearing up on the swim step I did a double thought about the sea state in that region. The transom is a challenge as is the rough seas there which is normal for the area. That said there are two issues: 1. moving a fully geared up diver safely and 2: moving said diver with dignity. Keeping in mind we all want to be just like everyone else. I have used a friends boat with a swim step that houses the dingy during the run out and so it moves up and down to launch the dingy. We use it like an elevator, bringing it up to deck level (as close as possible) to launch the diver and taking it below water to recover the diver. The hoist may be your best bet given the transom.

:questionmark:

Given the adjustable height swim step (deck to -4'), vessel layout, and sea conditions; dressing onboard and transferring seems more practical — unless we are missing something??? I personally wouldn’t want to gear-up on this boat’s swim-step in these seas.

Probably right. You normally have pretty rough seas up in that part of the state.

The plan is to launch and recover the disabled diver with his buddy at the same time. The only in-water prep would be the option of latching or releasing a seat-belt. Crew can don & doff fins (from the buddy or both) while divers are seated. We figured the buddy would be first-on and off the platform.

OK

:questionmark:

Interesting point on hard surfaces. Since divers will be in 7mm wetsuits or drysuits with insulation suitable for 50° F water, do you think that would that be enough padding?

A good wheelchair cushion is about 4 inches thick and cost about $400 (so I recommend finding something else to use) and is very soft. A 1/4 inch of neoprean or a 400 gram undergarmet (dry suits should have dump valves in both ankles for paraplegics) would be at the lower edge of minimum requirements. Add to that the weight of the gear and it is crushed pretty flat so I would recommend if possible to have additional padding. A pressure sore is 4-6 months in hospital on their stomachs with an IV so padding is cheap by comparisson.

The objective is to support all vets with difficulty diving, even if their limitations occurred as a civilian years after service or simply from age. There may even be some trips for able-bodied vets if boat time and funds are available, much like when the boat was used for sport fishing.

Agreed. My group (Disabled Veterans SCUBA Project serves all disabled veterans. Combat inuries are first priorty, active duty non-combat second, after leaving service third proirity. We serve all disabilities including paralysis, amputee, blind, and Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI is the signature wound of the current war) and PTSD. Both TBi and PTSD will look able bodied.

:questionmark:

Do you think we should put head protection on them when moved by a davit or would a 7mm hood suffice? I suppose we could go as far as a face-covered motorcycle helmet. They will still be wearing gloves at that point so the rest of their skin should be protected from abrasions. This is really the other volunteer’s area, but they may not have considered it unless they worked with a boat-mounted davit or A-frame at sea before. I am sure at-sea testing before taking disabled divers out will teach us a lot, but I would rather find mistakes now.

Hmmm, tough decision here. My concerns are 1: Abraisions and 2: Physological well being. A helment on a disabled person with paralysis when no one else wears one would potentially make them feel like the kid who takes the short bus. Keep in mind, some wear fins even though they can't use them so they will look like everyone else in the water. So we know this is an important issue physocologically. I would say no helment.

We had considered designs for lifting the disabled diver while strapped into the swim-step chair, or wheeling it, on and off the platform. The concept was rejected to reduce cycle time on the platform, especially on recovery operations.

This was my first thought too. There is a you-tube video of a dive operation in Gods Pocket BC that has an elevator on their boat used to recover ablebodied divers. What is the recycle time? Would it be significantly longer than the normal diver climbing up the ladder while the others wait in the water out of the dropped diver zone?

:questionmark:

Do you have any thoughts on using, or sources for, lift harnesses? We are discussing a single-point lifting ring similar to commercial diving harnesses. The D-ring would probably be on a longer strap so the snap shackle could connect above the head. We considered two shoulder D-rings but the BC or cylinder harness would interfere. Unlike a commercial diver’s harness, a true parachute-style double leg strap crotch strap should probably be used.

No, the comercial diving harness looks good, but I would like to see a jock strap or leg straps on it.

:questionmark:

I have been playing with seat designs. I can see a short horn, maybe 3-6" in diameter, that able-bodied divers can wrap their legs around would help stabilize them in the water. The horn would be short enough they could just stand up or swim off. Would a horn like that be in the way of a disabled diver? I was especially wondering if you strap legs together on paraplegics in dive-mode? If so, a horn would interfere. I guess it could be made retractable if the idea works in testing at all.

We don't always strap the legs together, but frequently do as it keeps them more under control and protects the reef. It also provides for one hand lifting of the legs to get them into horizontal trim and reduce drag. That said, some paralyzed individuals wear fins and acually can move their legs in the water. One dive buddy of mine, a paraplegic for 30 years (USAF injured in the line of duty) who has no use of her legs on land out swims me in the water and can move her legs.