Building on OW cert

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If your instructor really wanted to help you improve he'd forget trying to sell you the AOW class and just invite you to come and dive with him or her if you have an issue finding buddies. I tell all of my OW students that they are welcome to tag along on any dives I am doing that are within the level of their training and experience. If I'm with students I'll do my best to make sure they show up at the site and have someone else to dive with. That is usually not hard because if I know they are coming I'll pick a site where there is usually someone else looking for a buddy. Since I teach small classes I'll also buddy them up with a student on checkouts so the student has a buddy and the newly minted diver gets to practice their skills all over. I make sure it's within ratios.

I wrote an book on Advanced or AOW level training, including when to consider it, why, and what should come before in terms of skills you should have before starting the AOW class. I want my students to take a Rescue class before AOW. The primary reason for this is that Rescue will go a long ways towards increasing your situational awareness and many operations now use the AOW card as a way to reduce their liability and put people on sites they really have no business diving.

I've seen numerous AOW divers put on dives and sites where they were completely unprepared for the conditions and didn't have the ability to assess that. I expect an AOW course to prepare divers for the types of dives they may have access to along with the increased risks. Before I allow a diver I did not train for OW to take an AOW class they need to demonstrate good buoyancy and trim, basic skills neutral and horizontal, and excellent buddy skills.

The AOW class is not the place to remediate basic skills from the OW class. It's to teach new skills and knowledge. As long as that AOW card is going to get you access to say, the Speigel Grove, you need to know how to plan that dive with the right amount of gas, know what to do if you get blown off the wreck, know how to assist a fellow diver, and at the same time hear the captain say "there's a 2 knot current down there" and decide on your own that you're not ready for that yet and call the dive.

AOW should not just be more experience with an instructor. That's a poor reason to take the class. If you want more experience with a pro, just ask to dive with one. No class, no fees (maybe you buy them lunch or pay the entry fee to a quarry for them), and no pressure to do things. Just dive and relax. If your basic skills are not solid, don't take another class to build on them. Remember the old adage about building on sand rather than rock.

If you feel you must take a class to improve on something right out of OW, you probably didn't get what you paid for in the OW class. There's a common belief that I feel is used as an excuse for poor basic training. That belief is that "the OW card is a license to learn."

It's not. That card says that you have learned. According to the RSTC, that card says you now have the ablility to plan, execute, and safely return from a dive with a buddy of equal training and experience with no professional present. If you can't do that or feel uneasy about it, you should not have been given the card. As the student you do have a responsibility to express that unease to the instructor and they have a moral and ethical responsibility to do whatever it takes to address that at no additional cost to you.

When I certify a student, before I give them the card I ask myself two questions.
1. Would I dive with this person if I wasn't an instructor?
2. Would I allow my loved one to dive with them without me present and know that they would be ok and taken care of if something happened?

The answer to both of those has to be yes or they don't get the card. In order to do that I ask them point blank, "would you feel comfortable coming here next week or in two weeks and diving with your classmate or another of my students if I wasn't here?" If they were to hesitate or tell me they are unsure, I'd ask why and then we'd decide what to do. If that meant doing a couple more dives with me, ok fine. We'd schedule a time and get a couple more dives in. I certainly would not tell them to sign up for another class. That's just being greedy.
 
It will be hard to follow Jim, but that's what I get for reading all the posts.

Go dive. If you are unsure of yourself or have issues, you might want to shop around for another instructor for your AOW. If you think you need to have help with OW skills, you can hire an instructor to help you for an afternoon or more.

Talk to some AOW instructors and find out how they teach their class and what the dives will be. Not all instructors and dives are equal, even if they meet minimum standards. There are a lot of good choices around you.

The diving in NorCal is year round, a little spotty in winter weather, in a 7mm farmer John, so you can work around buying a drysuit in SoCal if you need to.



Good luck

Bob
 
As much of a fan of GUE Fundies as I may be, I stand by my earlier recommendation: Enjoy the trip to Mexico and the additional experience you'll gain from that, then take AOW at your earliest convenience. After that, well, wait and see. Nevertheless, since you brought it up ...

The GUE Fundamentals course sounds great, though I think I'm going to have to get in better shape first; the OW swim test wasn't easy for me, and it looks like the GUE one is 50% longer, and timed. Maybe I'll start with a swim class; I might improve just as much from refining my technique as improving my fitness, and I could learn something other than freestyle.

Don't fret the swim test (as I did). Yes, it's timed, but if you give yourself some practice sessions in a pool--never mind the swim class unless you really can't swim--you'll do fine. The allotted time is more generous than it seems. My wife did the entire thing in breaststroke, and another woman in our class did the entire thing in backstroke. I finished way before they did, and the fourth guy in our class finished way before I did. But it's not a competition. Anyway, don't sweat the swim test.

Also, what's the story on the specialized gear? Could I rent what I need?

There are a lot of threads on SB where people contemplating taking Fundies have asked questions, so feel free to look for them. The short answer is yes, a GUE instructor will almost always be able to hook you up with some rental gear. Another thing that tends to happen is that because the GUE community is somewhat tight-knit and enthusiastic, there are often people who will offer to lend you gear to use for the course at no cost. No guarantee of that, but it has been known to happen.

That said, I think you could put aside the Fundies goal for the immediate future and enjoy diving a little. Maybe look into it in January as a sort of New Year's resolution and if you decide it appeals to you, schedule a course for later in 2019.
 
Jim, I can't recall a time I've ever disagreed with you. And this is no exception. But you have proven to be one of the best.
Finding an instructor that will dive with a newbie to help him/her may be a problem due to location.
 
Are Yelp reviews for courses worth the electrons they're printed on? There's a dive shop near me that has glowing reviews for their diving instruction, and they offer Peak Performance Bouyancy as a standalone, AOW, and GUE Fundamentals, among other courses. Any specific questions I should ask if I go in to feel them out?

I would love to just go diving with one of the instructors to get a sense of their style, but it's hard for me to wrap my head around just asking a stranger to do what they do for a living for my benefit in exchange for lunch. Is this really a common thing in diving? What would be a fair price for what is essentially a private lesson?
 
Are Yelp reviews for courses worth the electrons they're printed on? There's a dive shop near me that has glowing reviews for their diving instruction, and they offer Peak Performance Bouyancy as a standalone, AOW, and GUE Fundamentals, among other courses. Any specific questions I should ask if I go in to feel them out?

I would love to just go diving with one of the instructors to get a sense of their style, but it's hard for me to wrap my head around just asking a stranger to do what they do for a living for my benefit in exchange for lunch. Is this really a common thing in diving? What would be a fair price for what is essentially a private lesson?
Agree. Fair price.....hmmmm…...
 
Are Yelp reviews for courses worth the electrons they're printed on? There's a dive shop near me that has glowing reviews for their diving instruction, and they offer Peak Performance Bouyancy as a standalone, AOW, and GUE Fundamentals, among other courses. Any specific questions I should ask if I go in to feel them out?

I would love to just go diving with one of the instructors to get a sense of their style, but it's hard for me to wrap my head around just asking a stranger to do what they do for a living for my benefit in exchange for lunch. Is this really a common thing in diving? What would be a fair price for what is essentially a private lesson?

I would say look for one of the GUE "groups" and speak with those people and start diving with that group. Lots of good information. PM me if you are interested and I can give you the name of a GUE diver in LA you could reach out to on FB. He is also an instructor (not GUE) but I think could be a lot of help for you. Nice guy.

And that is the benefit of GUE, this person was coming out to the east coast 2 years ago, wanted to dive, asked his GUE instructor for some contacts on the East coast. We (my buddies and I) ended up diving with him 2 days, had a great time.
 
AOW will open a lot of doors to your future dive opportunities. I'd get it over with.
 
Refresher class(es) may be a good, and repeatable, way to have someone work with you on basics and to try out other instructors and get different points of view, or DM guided 'tours'. Repeatedly going to a few shops with 'Can I do a refresher with someone that focuses on X?' should get you good practice and feedback. Often DM/AIs can teach refresher as well, which opens up your refresher pool to more people the shop knows about. Sort of a structured, and paid, way to dive with a good buddy/mentor for feedback. Which may be more helpful than a shop answer of 'You're good enough on X, you should really take our Y class instead'.

Dry is a way to make the water cozier and thus you more relaxed. I dive wet in Monterey, but a dry class is not a bad idea, but it adds more complexity in gear and buoyancy.

Shallow sheltered water can give you the best chance to work on basics, whether a pool or protected/calm open water.

Enjoy!! Welcome to diving.
 
There's a dive shop near me that has glowing reviews for their diving instruction, and they offer Peak Performance Bouyancy as a standalone, AOW, and GUE Fundamentals, among other courses. Any specific questions I should ask if I go in to feel them out?

I can't speak to the Yelp reviews. I just wanted to point out that if you do stop by to speak to someone, keep in mind what courses that person teaches and doesn't teach. For instance, the PADI courses might be taught by one instructor and the GUE courses by another instructor. If so, then keep in mind you might not be able to feel "them" out--as in the dive shop (as if the dive shop has its own thoughts on the matter). Rather, you may be feeling out just one instructor affiliated with the dive shop.
 

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