Calm-headed response

[Lorenzoid]

Ultimately it is a judgement call and each diver must decide for themselves the right course of action. Some divers may feel that the appropriate response should be standard practice, end the dive. Others have a different philosophy of diving. No one is right. No one is wrong.

My comments were limited to the DM in the video and not intended to be extrapolated to anyone else. I didn't even say anything about "right" or "wrong." What led to this point in the discussion was my suspicion about his possible motives for not following "standard practice" on this particular dive.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I can appreciate that he "had air" and that he had learned not to rush from his training, but he could only guess whether the air would last long enough for him to take off his rig off and examine the first stage. That was a calculated risk he didn't need to take.

I don't think so.

He was guiding divers, so its a fair assumption that he had plenty of air, especially as he was about to guide them to the boat (he gave the hull sign) and he probably knew how much air he had from experience.

This is not a diver who has a few hundred dives, he probably makes more dives per year than most people have career dives

Part of the DM course is the stress test where you need to problem solve.

With only a limited experience of guiding you'll be faced with 101 unexpected problems underwater which you need to deal with and carry on the dive. Certainly more so than the average diver will, because the general public are unpredictable and can always invent new things to take you by surprise.

So personally I saw nothing wrong, and nothing exceptional that any experienced (Pro) diver wouldn't be able to do

You learn to keep a cool head, you also learn what is a real emergency and what's an annoyance.

If I need to control a diver I don't link arms, I can control their ascent with just 2 fingers resting on their shoulder or bring 2 divers up while adjusting my buoyancy just with my lungs - these things come with practice, and because you have too

What I think is good with the video is that it inspires people to get their skills and thinking up to this sort of standard, rather than having a drama at the slightest minor issue

 

[ReadyDiverOne]

But, my friend @Diving Dubai, that is NOT the point that I was making or that @Lorenzoid was making. The only question and point I was making (and I think @Lorenzoid is also making) is whether--for regular OW divers who aren't massively experienced DMs like this guy appears to be--it is a good idea to take off the BCD and tank and then fiddle around with it and the reg BEFORE securing an alternate air source. To that question there is, clearly, a right answer: No, that is not a good idea and that is NOT what is taught in PADI OW classes. New divers are taught to first see if they can secure an alternate air supply and, if not, then to perform a CESA. Taking off one's kit and trying to "fix" the problem before securing an alternate air supply is a very bad idea: you don't know how much air you have (or don't have) and, while you're trying to fix the problem, your buddy could be swimming farther away from you, leaving you to drown. So you should always FIRST secure an air supply.

Yes, obviously, here the guy had it under control, and yes, here it appears that he had enough air to maybe feather for a bit, but we are not talking about whether this guy did the right thing in his circumstance. Again, the question is, is this the right course of action for regular OW divers. And, again, I would respectfully submit that this is most definitely NOT the right course of action for such divers--the very first thing to be done is to secure an alternate air source.

 

[AdivingBel]

The guy in the video has skills I can only (for now) envy.

LOL...Zoid, I think you got this. Don't sell yourself short.

 

[Diving Dubai]

@ReadyDiverOne

At OW your supposed to know within 20bar how much gas you have in your cylinder

You’re taught how to don and doff kit underwater

If either of these are an issue you shouldn’t have passed ow

He had at all times an alt air source next to him. Didn’t need to put it in straight away

It’s an unfortunate fact most Diver’s don’t practice their skills, I spend an awful amount of time going over basic remedial stuff at AOW

The only advanced thing he did was to do it while neutral, where practice has made breath control second nature

Every diver should be able to do this (perhaps on the sand) without fuss, otherwise back to school and practice the basic 24

 

[ReadyDiverOne]

Again, not the point.

 

[johndiver999]

But, my friend @Diving Dubai, that is NOT the point that I was making or that @Lorenzoid was making. The only question and point I was making (and I think @Lorenzoid is also making) is whether--for regular OW divers who aren't massively experienced DMs like this guy appears to be--it is a good idea to take off the BCD and tank and then fiddle around with it and the reg BEFORE securing an alternate air source. To that question there is, clearly, a right answer: No, that is not a good idea and that is NOT what is taught in PADI OW classes. New divers are taught to first see if they can secure an alternate air supply and, if not, then to perform a CESA. Taking off one's kit and trying to "fix" the problem before securing an alternate air supply is a very bad idea: you don't know how much air you have (or don't have) and, while you're trying to fix the problem, your buddy could be swimming farther away from you, leaving you to drown. So you should always FIRST secure an air supply.

Yes, obviously, here the guy had it under control, and yes, here it appears that he had enough air to maybe feather for a bit, but we are not talking about whether this guy did the right thing in his circumstance. Again, the question is, is this the right course of action for regular OW divers. And, again, I would respectfully submit that this is most definitely NOT the right course of action for such divers--the very first thing to be done is to secure an alternate air source.

You are probably correct. You want to have a working regulator in your mouth ASAP. However, the situation is somewhat of a gray area. He had NOT lost his air supply. It was working for him. He didn't (immediately) need another regulator.

If his second stage had exploded in 1000 pieces, I bet he would have first secured a new second stage (probably his octopus).

So if a diver hears an air leak behind his head, is the text book answer to begin taking air from a buddy? Even when his regulator works fine?

Obviously removing the tank could be a big problem for some people. Especially ones who have a whole lot of lead on their tank, very little on their body, so when they remove the tank, they are presented with a significant challenge. I don't necessarily think it is a good model for the typical diver, but it shows a calm diver solving a problem quickly and effectively and safely with very little drama.

 

[MichaelMc]

I think the procedure for OW through Cave2 is:
- Alert team/buddies to an issue.
- Assess it
- Resolve it (if feel reasonably can) or ask for assistance (if feel need help).
- Update team/buddies on status

At new OW, that may translate as tell buddy, get reg you trust, go up as not sure what else to do.
We expect our barest OW divers to resolve a free flowing 2nd stage, not grab buddies octo and ascend.
The scale slides from there.
But it is the same procedure.
Some OW divers that may mean remove BC, shut down the valve, swap a hose, reopen valve. (not sure why and a bit extreme)

 

[lermontov]

my guess is the 2 main characters were both DMs and the leaking tanks was a stimulating exercise in their otherwise ordinary day on a dive site they'd probably been on hundreds of times. It was probably the most excitement theyd had all year.
They probably don't give a rat what the book says they dealt with it as they saw fit and dealt with it well

 

[Neilwood]

A very calm response to a serious situation.

As he is a working professional DM, I suspect his comfort in the water is seriously higher than a lot of peoples. He is likely, due to that fact, to have a low gas consumption rate and probably nortmally comes up with a ton of air left when customers are signalling low. So he did what, to him, was the route of least problems:
1) realise there was a problem
2) Realise the problem was with his rig and reassure the paying customers that there was no need to be alarmed (he would not know how they might react to a first stage freeflow)
3) He knew he could manage to breathe of his second stages at that point so no hurry to snatch an alternate from his customers.
4) Knowing he has spare gas on hand (the divers had offered their alternates), he takes his time to assess the problem and form a plan. Doffing the gear to inspect the source of the problem was super easy and he then realises where the leak is and that it isn't solvable.
5) Knowing that the surface is reasonably close he decides not to bother de-donning the kit (potentially thinking about ditching it if it proves to be an issue).
6) Calmly signals to ascend while taking alternate air source.

Looking at this situation and comparing his reactions with those of an OW qualified diver is disingenious. There is no right and wrong way to react in this case. The OW diver will react in one way due to skills and experience whereas the DM will react in a hugely different way.