Can I use a single wing for doubles?

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There's a pretty clear theme developing here, and it seems to always happen like this:

1. Aspiring tech diver asks if he can use one wing/plate for singles/doubles. Totally rational question to what seems like an intuitive issue.

2. Tech divers respond, saying "No! At best it's inconvenient, at worst it's very dangerous."

3. Aspiring diver, trying to save money and think for themselves, questions why. That's totally fine.

4. Tech divers remain adamant. Don't do it.

5. If the aspiring diver doesn't listen, he gets his jack-of-all-wings. Six months later, aspiring diver has seen for himself that it's not a great solution and it makes the dives less fun (or less safe), and the wing goes up on WTS. Aspiring diver gets a dedicated singles wing and dedicated doubles wing.

6. Retail market thrives.

Gist: A substantial majority of divers with real tech experience all dismiss the notion of using one wing to rule them all. It's one of those things that is not entirely intuitive, so maybe everyone has see for themselves. But if you get a wing that's too big or too small for your tanks, or traps air, or flaps around or puts you in a weird position to swim, hover or ascend, you're not going to have fun, and you're going to get rid of it. A lot of people here probably went through the same process, wasted a bunch of money re-buying stuff, maybe had a close call, and are just trying to keep that from happening to others.
 
Try it with twin Faber HP 80s and see how it works!:rofl3:

Who in their right mind would double those mid-pressure monsters? Of all the steel 80s out there, those are total outliers. Heiser makes 120s too, but I don't see anyone taking their buoyancy characteristics into consideration when setting up a double-120 rig.
 
Why is this thread turning so hostile?? The simple question asked was "can it be done?" The answer should be as simple as, "yes, provided the lift is adequate."

No hostility intended in my response, but not everyone agrees with that answer. The OP asked "If it was OK to...." Many people are going to take that as "even if it CAN be done, that doesn't make it "OK", or recommended."

Some people can afford to spend $20,000 on gear, but the fact is that many people can not afford to spend that much. So why do people in this thread feel it's ok to judge another person's quality of life or character based on how much money they have spent on scuba equipment?!? (Somebody they have probably never met in person).

I really don't think that people are trying to judge based on amount of money spent. Most people cannot afford to plunk down anything close to 20 grand at once for gear, that is why many have spent years accumulating gear AND training. I think that most people are motived by trying to keep others from possibly making a mistake that they themselves may have made at one time. A mistake that caused them to spend more money in the long run in the effort to try to save money. Add on to that a possible (very likely) decrease in safety, and the general PITA factor of trying to make gear do something it was not intended to do, and it makes it difficult to come up with a reason to recommend using a singles wing for doubles. When the reason for using a singles wing for doubles comes up, and the reason is "to save money", then I think it is very valid to point out that the small amount of money to buy the right wing is a drop in the bucket compared to all the costs associated with technical diving. In the case of the OP, I know for certain that the manufacturer would not recomment using a Pioneer singles wing for doubles. Having owned one myself, I wouldn't use it for doubles.
 
wow i didnt mean to start a fight on here. i understand the fact the wings are designed for certain applications and im not trying to make certain wing into something it isnt. my main curiosity was that if i found a singles wing with sufficient lift, would it work with doubles. the answer is what i expected, it is not wide enough and the doubles would not allow it to fully expand. i have begun my shopping for tech gear and see that yes it is very very expensive and im not trying to cut corners. i just prefer the donut style wing and the 40#singles wing i was looking at was a donut. that was my only reason for asking. so, now that that question has been answered, why on earth would anyone need 100+ pounds of lift in a wing? that seems like overkill in any configuration i can think of.
 
No hostility intended in my response, but not everyone agrees with that answer. The OP asked "If it was OK to...." Many people are going to take that as "even if it CAN be done, that doesn't make it "OK", or recommended."



I really don't think that people are trying to judge based on amount of money spent. Most people cannot afford to plunk down anything close to 20 grand at once for gear, that is why many have spent years accumulating gear AND training. I think that most people are motived by trying to keep others from possibly making a mistake that they themselves may have made at one time. A mistake that caused them to spend more money in the long run in the effort to try to save money. Add on to that a possible (very likely) decrease in safety, and the general PITA factor of trying to make gear do something it was not intended to do, and it makes it difficult to come up with a reason to recommend using a singles wing for doubles. When the reason for using a singles wing for doubles comes up, and the reason is "to save money", then I think it is very valid to point out that the small amount of money to buy the right wing is a drop in the bucket compared to all the costs associated with technical diving. In the case of the OP, I know for certain that the manufacturer would not recomment using a Pioneer singles wing for doubles. Having owned one myself, I wouldn't use it for doubles.

where in new mexico are you located? i was thinking about heading over there in the near future to either dive the blue hole again or try out the bottomless lakes.
 
Who in their right mind would double those mid-pressure monsters? Of all the steel 80s out there, those are total outliers. Heiser makes 120s too, but I don't see anyone taking their buoyancy characteristics into consideration when setting up a double-120 rig.

You said "various manufacturers" and I said "different story with steel 80s."

Everyone needs to do the math, to determine how large their wing needs to be.

I use a 40 lb donut wing for a single steel tank, and a 50 lb U-shaped wing for twin steel tanks. My twin tanks are big, though. Not like your little tanks.
 
There's a pretty clear theme developing here, and it seems to always happen like this:

1. Aspiring tech diver asks if he can use one wing/plate for singles/doubles. Totally rational question to what seems like an intuitive issue.

2. Tech divers respond, saying "No! At best it's inconvenient, at worst it's very dangerous."

3. Aspiring diver, trying to save money and think for themselves, questions why. That's totally fine.

<snip>

I've posted one of those threads myself, lol, but I'm not sure that was the OP's intention. In any case, he asked about using a single tank wing (H Pioneer 36) for small doubles, whereas the threads you describe usually inquire about using doubles wings (or combo bungee wings) for both singles and doubles.

And FWIW, the divers I saw using H Pioneer and Eclipse wings with doubles had plenty of other wings from which to choose. They went with the single tank wings because they were slicker, better, and more convenient for their intended purposes. Besides, I don't know of any doubles wing designed around double AL40s (aka "chick doubles" - not my term), so for something like that you might as well improvise.
 
You said "various manufacturers" and I said "different story with steel 80s."

Nereas, please re-read the post. My quote was "LP80s from various manufacturers." You respond by saying "different story with steel 80s"?? So...LP80s...are not steel. Got it.

Then you change your tune and say "Try that with Faber HP80s." Again, refer to the original quote above - "LP80s from various manufacturers" by definition doesn't include HP80s. While you're doling out non sequiturs, why not tell us that a 38# wing would also fail to lift a two-ton construction i-beam?

My twin tanks are big, though. Not like your little tanks.

So your 80s are bigger than my 80s? I guess we now know who is doubling mid-pressure Fabers. Hope they work well for you.
 
I think much of your problem stems from what you read.
Go back to my posts and read them completely!
You find:
I dive the OMS 45# bungie wing not the 95# version (see post #18)
I personally feel the 95# version is less well suited for singles than my 45# because of the overall size even with the bungies. Yet it still makes the point that the bungies may control its characteristics making it safe yet suboptimal.
My comparison was with a wing that is much closer to the size of a true singles wing when completely deflated.
would you care to overlay a 30-40# horseshoe singles wing in it's relaxed (deflated state) with my 45# bungied doubles wing in the same state.
Any time you or some of the other more fortunate divers would like to donate your excess wings to us less fortunate diver please feel free to do so.
I'd personally like a 30# singles wing but until my budget allows or one falls in my lap, I'll be happy and feel perfectly safe diving my 45# bungied wing which is rated by the manufacturer for both single tank and doubles use.
Ok, speaking from experience...

How many wings do you own and/or dive regularly? I am interested in your comparison sample size. My *personal* experience comes from owning 5 wings and having put about a dozen in the water for dives including that bungied 95# OMS wing.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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