Can some explain to me what PPO2 is?

[jonnythan]

diverbrian,

"I thought...That was Charles Law."

Most people do, but Charles' Law deals with temperature/volume relationships. Important law for hot air ballooning, but no SCUBA applications.

You know, all of those "laws" are really just different parts of the same simple equation..

P1 x V1 / T1 = P2 x V2 / T2

 

[diverbrian]

You know, all of those "laws" are really just different parts of the same simple equation..

P1 x V1 / T1 = P2 x V2 / T2

I believe that I was taught that one in high school physics and nuclear power school a few years later. Both places called it the "Universal Gas Law."

 

[Don Burke]

You know, all of those "laws" are really just different parts of the same simple equation..

P1 x V1 / T1 = P2 x V2 / T2

It will be interesting to see you pull Henry's Law out of that equation.

 

[jonnythan]

It will be interesting to see you pull Henry's Law out of that equation.

Henry's Law isn't exactly BOW material.

Besides, I meant Boyle's and Charles' laws. And you know it

 

[perpet1]

perpet1,

"Walter, you also did not answer the question that goes to the heart of this thread,

If a YMCA instructor were to not teach PPO2 would they be in violation of the YMCA standard?"

I believe I did answer that.

"I've never said teaching PPO2 was required."

It is an interesting article. It's full of errors, but I agree it's interesting.

"Required per standard or is it just something you present?"

Required per standard. How do you explain the theory of decompression without discussing Dalton's Law of partial pressures?

Sure you already answered the question...... You covered your bases just fine, it is required not then again it is not required.

Then you make the comment like the following:

Since you believe so strongly about leaving out nonessentials from an OW course, perhaps you should start an agency with such standards.

so it is easy to site that an artical is full of errors and back it up with your years of experience and >4000 posts but it means little.

 

[Walter]

Errors in the article:

"All basic open-water courses must include the same syllabus of diving skills, physics, physiology, etc."

They do not have the same syllabus.

"It was written by the Recreational Scuba Training Council"

It was written by representatives from NASDS, NAUI, PADI, SSI and YMCA before the RSTC was formed. The RSTC was formed later and now the RSTC is the group that makes changes to the minimums.

"Although only six agencies are members of RSTC, as a practical matter all have to meet the RSTC/ANSI standard in order to buy liability insurance and defend themselves from lawsuits."

NAUI is not a member and no longer meets the minimum swimming requirements, yet it has no difficulty with liability insurance.

"Some agencies (IDEA, NASDS and YMCA) require a minimum number of hours of instruction, typically 24............Other agencies require that students meet performance standards, and leave the number of lecture hours and pool sessions up to the instructor."

The agencies I've studied all use performance requirements rather that strict hour requirements.

"NAUI, PDIC and YMCA require four scuba and one skin dive."

I don't know PDIC's requirements. That is correct for YMCA, but NAUI requires either 5 SCUBA or 4 SCUBA and 1 skin dive.

"Of course, individual instructors can exceed an agency's minimum standards, and many do."

This is misleading. Instructors from some agencies (YMCA & NAUI are examples) can require additional material while instructors from other agencies (PADI is an example) can offer, but cannot require additional material.

Yes, it's full of errors. What's left out of the article is even more misleading than the errors included.

 

[Walter]

jonnythan,

"Henry's Law isn't exactly BOW material."

Why isn't it? It is essential to decompression theory.

"I meant Boyle's and Charles' laws."

Charles' Law has nothing to do with SCUBA.

"You know, all of those "laws" are really just different parts of the same simple equation"

The general gas law is derived from combining various gas laws. OTOH, most students can grasp the concepts easier when they are presented separately.

 

[jonnythan]

jonnythan,

"Henry's Law isn't exactly BOW material."

Why isn't it? It is essential to decompression theory.

Are you saying OW students actually compute the volume of gas dissolved into their bloodstream? Sounds like something I had to do on one of my Advanced Systems Phisiology finals.

 

[Walter]

"Are you saying OW students actually compute the volume of gas dissolved into their bloodstream?"

No.

 

[perpet1]

Errors in the article:

"All basic open-water courses must include the same syllabus of diving skills, physics, physiology, etc."

They do not have the same syllabus.

Your right but the members have the same minimum standard so we can start splitting hairs.

"It was written by the Recreational Scuba Training Council"

It was written by representatives from NASDS, NAUI, PADI, SSI and YMCA before the RSTC was formed. The RSTC was formed later and now the RSTC is the group that makes changes to the minimums. OK and you are saying what exactly? This is relavant how? you are arguing the chicken or the egg but it does not really matter.

"Although only six agencies are members of RSTC, as a practical matter all have to meet the RSTC/ANSI standard in order to buy liability insurance and defend themselves from lawsuits."

NAUI is not a member and no longer meets the minimum swimming requirements, yet it has no difficulty with liability insurance. Your 100% correct

"Some agencies (IDEA, NASDS and YMCA) require a minimum number of hours of instruction, typically 24............Other agencies require that students meet performance standards, and leave the number of lecture hours and pool sessions up to the instructor."

The agencies I've studied all use performance requirements rather that strict hour requirements. and that make this statement incorrect how?

"NAUI, PDIC and YMCA require four scuba and one skin dive."
I don't know PDIC's requirements. That is correct for YMCA, but NAUI requires either 5 SCUBA or 4 SCUBA and 1 skin dive. OK we have already established NAUI is not a member of RSTC Besides how is referencing NAUI incorrect here, we establishe they can all go beyond the requirements and in practice most NAUI instructors opt for the 4+1 format. But you did proove you vast understanding of the standards.

"Of course, individual instructors can exceed an agency's minimum standards, and many do."

This is misleading. Instructors from some agencies (YMCA & NAUI are examples) can require additional material while instructors from other agencies (PADI is an example) can offer, but cannot require additional material. I agree totally but in context there was nothing wrong with the statement.

Yes, it's full of errors. What's left out of the article is even more misleading than the errors included.

Yes full of errors. But generally speaking the author was correct that most open water classes have the same humble beginings.

BTW one would have a hard time finding ANY article (or standard for that matter) that could not be picked apart if one were to look hard enough.