Can we take things from the ocean?

[admikar]

Several Nazi got away from capital punishment from Nuremberg.
I cannot recall any significant judgement dished out from The Hague.
You are living in your dream.

Well, Mladic and Karadzic would disagree. I believe Milosevich would be sentenced to life sentence too if he didn't die beforehand.
Anyway, I'm not too worried about being prosecuted by Hague for my crimes against fish/lamb/pigglet

 

[Centrals]

Well, Mladic and Karadzic would disagree. I believe Milosevich would be sentenced to life sentence too if he didn't die beforehand.

Those two only received life sentence instead of the gallow. NO justice.
The bodies of Milosevich and his wife should never had returned for a proper burial. They did not desert that.

 

[doctormike]

There is no justification for taking random items from the sea to put on a shelf, or necklace, or in a tank.

Surely there's a difference between a small popular beach getting overrun by tourists carting away sand or shells by the bucketfull, and a tiny fraction of that number of people scuba diving in a massively larger area grabbing a sand dollar? This quickly becomes a reductio ad absurdum argument where a fleet of purse seine net fishing boats are considered the moral equivalent of a spearo getting dinner, or construction of a cruise ship pier being the same as a diver grabbing a shell or two as a memento.

If you participate in any way in coastal development - as a customer, investor, vendor or employee - I guarantee that you are disturbing PLENTY of shells on the ocean bottom. I'm not saying not to do that, I'm just saying have a little perspective.

 

[agilis]

Surely there's a difference between a small popular beach getting overrun by tourists carting away sand or shells by the bucketfull, and a tiny fraction of that number of people scuba diving in a massively larger area grabbing a sand dollar? This quickly becomes a reductio ad absurdum argument where a fleet of purse seine net fishing boats are considered the moral equivalent of a spearo getting dinner, or construction of a cruise ship pier being the same as a diver grabbing a shell or two as a memento.

If you participate in any way in coastal development - as a customer, investor, vendor or employee - I guarantee that you are disturbing PLENTY of shells on the ocean bottom. I'm not saying not to do that, I'm just saying have a little perspective.

I'm vastly amused by self-righteous defenders of the seas who stay in multi-story monstrosities built at the ocean's edge, and view with favor the paving and widening of seaside roadways. People who stay in superclubs usually fail to realize that the boat taking them out to the reef would have been unnecessary before the cursed thing was built, back when the reef started within wading distance. Reclining in their lounge chairs holding a drink brought to them by an underpaid local, or parading around the pool holding in their stomachs in the fatuous belief that the sweet young things will admire them instead of looking through them as if they were an inanimate object, these pure souls are wonderfully amusing to observe.

 

[TMHeimer]

Surely there's a difference between a small popular beach getting overrun by tourists carting away sand or shells by the bucketfull, and a tiny fraction of that number of people scuba diving in a massively larger area grabbing a sand dollar? This quickly becomes a reductio ad absurdum argument where a fleet of purse seine net fishing boats are considered the moral equivalent of a spearo getting dinner, or construction of a cruise ship pier being the same as a diver grabbing a shell or two as a memento.

If you participate in any way in coastal development - as a customer, investor, vendor or employee - I guarantee that you are disturbing PLENTY of shells on the ocean bottom. I'm not saying not to do that, I'm just saying have a little perspective.

Thanks. You put into 2 short paragraphs what I've been pontificating about since joining in 2007 with my first post being about shell collecting.

 

[M-Cameron]

Now that is a much better question, but as I keep saying -- this is not a moral issue. It's courtesy and common sense to leave the natural world alone for others to enjoy, and for it to thrive.

As for shelling on a beach, there is a beach on Kaua'i known as Glass Beach. Not that long ago -- maybe 5-6 years ago -- it had a ton of polished glass, caused by a combination of the location of an old dump and the wave action on the small crescent of sand. Once Glass Beach became known, and more people visited and "collected" the glass, it started to disappear. People would post images of their hauls -- sometimes it would be a mason jar full of glass that would end up on a shelf. Now there is no more glass on Glass Beach -- none! So you tell me, would it be better if the glass was still on the beach, or is it better on the shelf? The same discussion can be had about multiple shells on Kaua'i including the current favorite of collectors, the Sunrise shell.

so people are picking up trash off a beach, and you are upset about it?....the beach would be better if it were covered in polished remains of human trash?

....weird flex but ok...

 

[lowviz]

@TMHeimer

Thanks. You put into 2 short paragraphs what I've been pontificating about since joining in 2007 with my first post being about shell collecting.

Those of us who are on the North, Northeast, or Mid Atlantic ocean's shores: Anyone here knows that the best time to dive is after a storm. It trashes everything and brings new 'trinkets' to anyone who wants to pick something up. I have...

To all you 'holier than thou' types: The Faithful Steward Wreck & Delaware’s Coin Beach – NovaNumismatics.com

We have left our trash on the bottom of every ocean, lake and waterway. Now it is highly revered?

 

[TMHeimer]

@TMHeimer


Those of us who are on the North, Northeast, or Mid Atlantic ocean's shores: Anyone here knows that the best time to dive is after a storm. It trashes everything and brings new 'trinkets' to anyone who wants to pick something up. I have...

To all you 'holier that thou' types: The Faithful Steward Wreck & Delaware’s Coin Beach – NovaNumismatics.com

We have left our trash on bottom of every ocean, lake and waterway. Now it is highly revered?

Good point. We also now purposely sink ships in the name of creating habitats for fish and other aquatic life that we have decimated. They were doing fine before we came along with commercial fishing. I know that these "artificial reefs" do in fact help increase populations, and of course they don't forget to mention how great they are for divers.
They don't mention the (much less?) cost of dumping these things in the ocean (cleaned-up of chemicals-- aren't we so responsible), vs. what it would cost to dismantle them on land and dispose of or recycle the parts.
I'll always believe that's the only reason they're dumped into the sea. Money.

 

[scubadada]

...I'll always believe that's the only reason they're dumped into the sea. Money.

Yes, the artificial reefs are magnets for sea life. They attract divers, who pay for airfare, rental cars, hotels, restaurants, and dive boats. Nobody would argue that there is not a financial incentive. The same argument can be laid for the presence of sea life, sharks, turtles, Goliath Grouper...

 

[rsingler]

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Play the ball, not the man. This is a Learning Zone thread. One warning only. Restrict your discussion to the issues, and do not attack ANY poster personally over their opinion.

---