Can we take things from the ocean?

[kelemvor]

Id like to see more wrecks properly preserved, but for some reason the so called “looters” are always more enthusiastic and willing to put in the effort than the conservationists. I think if the conservationists did half the work of the looters quite a few wrecks would be preserved.

I dunno, I've never had a looter get in my face and ask for money when I was trying to walk around them into a dive shop. I can't say the same for conservationists. Maybe it's a difference of behaviors in the USA vs Ireland.

I like much of the work conservationists do, but some of it is WAY out of line. I'm thinking of the dirty sea shepherd pirates and their ilk.

 

[Celt]

I dunno, I've never had a looter get in my face and ask for money when I was trying to walk around them into a dive shop. I can't say the same for conservationists. Maybe it's a difference of behaviors in the USA vs Ireland.

I like much of the work conservationists do, but some of it is WAY out of line. I'm thinking of the dirty sea shepherd pirates and their ilk.

Unfortunately In Ireland someone in an office draws a circle around a wreck and declares an exclusion zone. No attempt to do any work cleaning or making it accessible to the public as an attractive dive. They don’t seem capable of working with divers to promote dive sites the same as other historic sites.

 

[scubaozy]

Largely irrelevant grossly excessive copy and paste with typically Germanic verbosity. Ausfuhrlichkeit.

Why do you have to bring the Germans into this? It is “Ausfuehrlichkeit” btw, for the educated that is.

Self-righteous: convinced of one's own righteousness especially in contrast with the actions and beliefs of others : narrow-mindedly moralistic

I don’t think I can help you, loose the Jackson and Marshall and get an Ibanez and Vox, only after that I might talk to you.

Understood, Jagermeister.

This world is a massively complex confusion of needs/wants/wishes. I can not leaf-out and create my own food. You are a vegetarian? So you are a parasite on the very life-form that you hold in highest esteem?

Dear Southern comfort,
I never wrote I was vegetarian anywhere, I guess you just wanted to call me a parasite, so, that had to be invented.

Why some folks cannot come to terms with that, that I cannot hold a person kills for excitement and the other doesn’t kill indifferent. I get it, the excuse is to eat it, but, hey, you do have a choice not to kill, and you will not starve. As I wrote earlier, it’s so easy not to take anything from the ocean.

 

[Rick Brant]

I think jinglebells was just trying to jingle some bells and it seems to have worked.

 

[formernuke]

I take garbage every chance I get.

I might consider lobster at some point.

The rest has been thoroughly covered above.

 

[scubadada]

I think jinglebells was just trying to jingle some bells and it seems to have worked.

As there have been no responses to the thread since the OP...

 

[The Chairman]

Sure I judge you or others based on their actions.

Yeah, I can't do that with such scant information. When I'm perfect, I'll start judging others. Until then, I'll Dive and let Dive.

I get that you want to win this "debate". You're clearly all excited about it, which according to your definition makes you somewhat of a hedonist. First, you accused me of making "excuses", but that went out the window when I freely confessed that I have fun when I catch dinner or find a cool fossil. I have fun with almost everything I do, don't you? I mean, why do you dive? I have lots of fun, so I guess I'm a dive hedonist as well. I could go on and on. I find the food I catch to be far, far fresher, and therefore tastier than anything I can buy from a market. I guess that's why I live on 10+ acres and grow my own food. It's been a lousy year so far, but I have tomatoes coming out of my ears. I guess that makes me a hedonist farmer too. I clearly lack your refinement and am to be pitied above all else.

As Shakespeare once opined "To thine own self be true". It's up to each of us to determine our ethos. Obviously, I'm not swayed by Ucarkus' condemnation of me for enjoying what I do. I get the OP's consternation too. As new divers, we want to be held in good regard for our actions. It only makes sense to seek the advice of others if we're not sure. So far, we've seen more than two sides to this coin in this thread. That's a lot to think about. Ultimately, your decision is still YOURS. Make sure you follow all the laws but don't sweat it if you make a decision not everyone agrees with. I dive for me: not them.

 

[agilis]

Why do you have to bring the Germans into this? It is “Ausfuehrlichkeit” btw, for the educated that is.

I don’t think I can help you, loose the Jackson and Marshall and get an Ibanez and Vox, only after that I might talk to you.

Dear Southern comfort,
I never wrote I was vegetarian anywhere, I guess you just wanted to call me a parasite, so, that had to be invented.

Why some folks cannot come to terms with that, that I cannot hold a person kills for excitement and the other doesn’t kill indifferent. I get it, the excuse is to eat it, but, hey, you do have a choice not to kill, and you will not starve. As I wrote earlier, it’s so easy not to take anything from the ocean.

My apologies. Deutsche othographie is not my strong suit. Don't you think that consuming meat obtained from someone who you have, in effect, paid to kill the creature involved, is morally the same as killing it yourself? You seem to be suggesting that if you have averted your eyes from the process you are somehow blameless, less culpable. I hate to bring up the German thing again, but the tribunals at Nurnberg and elsewhere hanged people who had not killed anyone with their own hands. They had other people do it for them.

 

[Ontwreckdiver]

So you have no problem with people looting wrecks where such actions are illegal?

Some divers around the Great Lakes would still strip wrecks here of everything if possible, even though attitudes have changed over the past 30-something years. New wrecks are being found all the time. I want to be able to dive these wrecks with their artifacts intact, not stripped to decorate someone’s den.

Thankfully up here in Ontario it's illegal to even remove a nail from a wreck. If you bring something up with you the MNR and/or OPP will be waiting for you at the dock.

 

[Marie13]

Thankfully up here in Ontario it's illegal to even remove a nail from a wreck. If you bring something up with you the MNR and/or OPP will be waiting for you at the dock.

Illegal here as well, but the cops won’t be waiting for you when you dock unless someone drops a dime on you.