Careless instructor or overthinking newbie

[Seaweed Doc]

Ok i looked it up.
The a dive in AOWD has the same prerequisite, as the whole specialty. (Exceptions are: ice, cavern and self reliant).

The prerequisite for the deep dive specialty is adventure diver. So you need to have 3 AOWD dives (including the theorie). It is not necessary to certify the students to adventure diver, of course.
That's what my CD told me in the IDC aswell.

So deep dive is usually dive 4, because its the first dive of the second day.

You're misreading the requirements, if you're looking at PADI's Instructor Manual.

There is language that states "Student divers must meet all prerequisites and other requirements for the specialty."

However, that language ONLY applies "When using specialty diver materials for Adventure Dives not supported by PADI Advanced Open Water Diver materials...."

The Deep and Navigation dives ARE supported by PADI AOW materials. (As are several other "specialty-type" dives.)

The exception you're referring to (ice, cavern, and self-reliant) is getting at the idea that you don't have to hold an ADVANCED (not Adventure) certification to do ice, cavern, or self-reliant as one of the five AOW dives.

The only prerequisite mentioned for the deep dive as part of AOW is that the instructor should "generally assess diver knowledge, and, before going to depth in open water, evaluate the diver inwater for prerequisite skills needed to complete the Deep Dive." (And this only applies if the instructor doesn't have recent diving experience with the student.) Personally, I'd almost never do the deep diver first because I use the first OW dive to do a serious in-water assessment. Typically, students are doing PPB or Dry Suit as this dive, so I make sure they have their buoyancy dialed in either way. However, if I was training somebody I regularly dove with, or perhaps who had just completed OW with me, I wouldn't flinch at doing deep as dive 1.

Keep in mind also that the "Deep" dive in AOW is NOT the same as a deep dive in the Deep course. The former is limited to 30m/100 ft., the latter to 40m/130 ft.

To sum up: You don't have to first be an Adventure diver to do the deep dive associated with AOW. If your CD told you this, they're wrong.

I'm curious, would you issue both an Adventure Diver and an AOW card to students who followed your protocol? You'd have to electronically submit the PIC after dive 3 and before the deep dive to meet your requirement.

 

[Raphus]

You're misreading the requirements, if you're looking at PADI's Instructor Manual.

There is language that states "Student divers must meet all prerequisites and other requirements for the specialty."

However, that language ONLY applies "When using specialty diver materials for Adventure Dives not supported by PADI Advanced Open Water Diver materials...."

The Deep and Navigation dives ARE supported by PADI AOW materials. (As are several other "specialty-type" dives.)

The exception you're referring to (ice, cavern, and self-reliant) is getting at the idea that you don't have to hold an ADVANCED (not Adventure) certification to do ice, cavern, or self-reliant as one of the five AOW dives.

The only prerequisite mentioned for the deep dive as part of AOW is that the instructor should "generally assess diver knowledge, and, before going to depth in open water, evaluate the diver inwater for prerequisite skills needed to complete the Deep Dive." (And this only applies if the instructor doesn't have recent diving experience with the student.) Personally, I'd almost never do the deep diver first because I use the first OW dive to do a serious in-water assessment. Typically, students are doing PPB or Dry Suit as this dive, so I make sure they have their buoyancy dialed in either way. However, if I was training somebody I regularly dove with, or perhaps who had just completed OW with me, I wouldn't flinch at doing deep as dive 1.

Keep in mind also that the "Deep" dive in AOW is NOT the same as a deep dive in the Deep course. The former is limited to 30m/100 ft., the latter to 40m/130 ft.

To sum up: You don't have to first be an Adventure diver to do the deep dive associated with AOW. If your CD told you this, they're wrong.

I'm curious, would you issue both an Adventure Diver and an AOW card to students who followed your protocol? You'd have to electronically submit the PIC after dive 3 and before the deep dive to meet your requirement.

Thanks for your detailed response.
Of course I would not issue both cards, my, CD said its only necessary to do the 3 dives, not the certification. I never heared about that before and asked multiple questions.

Then my CD might be wrong. I read the instructor manual in German and didn't read the part: prerequisite only for not supported dives, by aowd materials. I will have a look, when I am home.

 

[SentinelAce]

Drysuit is a course all by itself. It takes multiple dives to get it mastered. I’m in Ohio and we dive dry but we teach the AOW course in a 7mm wetsuit then dry suit in a separate course. Having a dry suit to fit properly is key. They cannot be too big or too small. Air gets trapped etc. Leaving your student and having them chase you is unacceptable and unsafe. He should have recognized this and you do not simply “try” a dry suit in an advanced course in my opinion. Too many things to work on and it’s something you have never done. There are shops that even teach dry suit in open water so that is not against standards, it’s all the other issues you had and I’m sorry you had a poor experience. Teaching these courses is all about safety and having fun for the student without over whelming the student. I have seen too many instructors teach their “military” version and it ruins the experience.