Cave, cavern & wreck entry diving tips for open water divers

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

There have been a number of threads through the years that have said new divers and open water divers in general are not educated enough on the cave, cavern and wreck environments when they are introduced to scuba and therefore do not make well reasoned decisions about such entry. All too often new divers follow "trained professionals" into these environments such as the recent incident in Italy.

Perhaps we could create a sticky to be left in the new divers section that might serve to educate newbs about what they ought to consider.

So beyond--"DON'T ENTER!" What would you tell either open water divers in a class that you were teaching or a new diver that you have just met if they were to ask you?

What threads here on SB would you refer them to and have them read about the issues non trained divers have had in overhead environments? The first that comes to mind is the following thread in which new divers were with "trained professionals" and guided into a cave.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/425341-four-dead-italian-cave.html

Thoughts?

 

[Scott]

When they ask I give them this link or ask them to Google it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVmqK5YZuxM
A deceptively easy way to die

 

[JamesK]

The only actual tips I could give them are "Don't Do It" and "Get training".

The only thing I can say without being a complete butt is to give them warnings. The video posted above is good. Or they could read this Incident List from when the IUCRR was still doing them.

 

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

The only actual tips I could give them are "Don't Do It" and "Get training".

The only thing I can say without being a complete butt is to give them warnings. The video posted above is good. Or they could read this Incident List from when the IUCRR was still doing them.

I am hoping for a little more than don't do it. There are real reasons why one should not do it. People don't know what they don't know and this is a chance to tell them.

 

[JamesK]

I know. That is why I posted the link to the Incident List from IUCRR. They can read about those who died, and maybe it will open their eyes a little more.

However, you stated "tips". To me a tip is how to do something. I will not give anyone tips on how to do overhead diving. I will give them warnings about why they should not do it without proper training, and I think a list of dead people is a pretty good warning.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I'd encourage them to sign a statement saying I get their dive gear and their vehicle when they die in the cave they are not certified to be in - and generally make the point that this is not one of those "happens to someone else" deals, but is instead something that is about to happen to them.

Videos and lists of dead people are fine, but too many people are too good at denial and just won't believe they'll screw up like other divers do.

 

[SubMariner]

I am hoping for a little more than don't do it. There are real reasons why one should not do it. People don't know what they don't know and this is a chance to tell them.

Ok, how about "don't do it because you will DIE."

Just as someone who is not properly trained should not scuba dive, divers who are not properly trained should not dive in overhead environments.

 

[DevonDiver]

As the others have said, "Don't do it, until trained".

Open Water means Open Water - no overhead.

Cavern and (Basic) Wreck have appropriate limits - but still aren't foolproof penetration courses.

Cave and Technical Wreck - THAT is where you START learning...slowly.

---------- Post Merged at 02:13 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:09 AM ----------

but too many people are too good at denial and just won't believe they'll screw up like other divers do.

Ample evidence on this forum of people who don't like to be given advice that they don't want.

People who don't listen to advice... well, they probably aren't going to listen to the "how to" stuff either... because they're immune, aren't they?

You cannot learn practical/experiential skills, such as those appropriate for overhead environments, from the internet.

Teaching yourself those skills is beyond all acceptable risk thresholds.

If you want to do it THAT MUCH... seek out a really great wreck/cave instructor and treat yourself to good fun.

NOBODY.... NOBODY.... who does good cave/wreck training takes penetration lightly afterwards.

 

[fire_diver]

"Dive only within the scope of your training." If you aren't specifically trained to make penetration into an overhead enviroment, STAY OUT.

 

[Hawkwood]

Sometimes when you tell some people why they cannot or should not do something, i.e. list the reasons, etc., they have the "ammunition" to come back with all kinds of rationale as to why they can or should based on what you have just told them. At that point all you have done is given them "work arounds".

Just think of the thread a while back that related to a diver taking his friend under while holding onto his BCD to show him what it was like - "what could happen" was the question. He was told by many people what could happen....the thread turned into a mess.

Sorry for the ramble.

Bill