Cave Ccr Student Dies At Blue Grotto Today

[Reku]

I've gotten two reports now. One from a diver at the scene and another from someone who talked to a diver at the scene. Both state that this was during a "Lights Out" drill, which is part of a Cave CCR class and not a CCR class. That doesn't mean the instructor didn't add this drill to a CCR class. I have no first hand knowledge from the instructor or the other surviving student. I don't even know who the deceased is. All I know is that it happened and the scant few facts as I have posted about.

I did the first half of my SF2 training at Blue Grotto. I did line drills which while not specifically a part of a CCR class, really helped me to work on my trim and buoyancy. In fact, we did drills while I was running the line, just to stress me out. It's up to the student to make sure his gear is back to square one after each drill. During a boom drill (gas leak), you turn off both cylinders to simulate looking for a leak. It's easy for the instructor to hit you with yet another drill before you turn those cylinders back on. That alone can be fatal, especially if the next drill is "lights out" and your eyes are closed so you can't see the PPO2 levels diminish to dangerous levels. I'm not saying that's what happened, but it certainly is possible.

Right, it honestly could of been either a ccr class or a ccr cave class.... we don't have a clue. I've heard that exact thing said by someone else - a chain of drills coming quickly before the previous drill is finished can be deadly, depending on the drills. Who knows what really happened, all we can do is sit and wait. Needless to say - these past weeks have seen some frequent accidents (of all kinds).

Reading these threads really makes you cherish the dives you come back from that much more. It could happen to anyone of us.

 

[tursiops]

I've gotten two reports now. One from a diver at the scene and another from someone who talked to a diver at the scene. Both state that this was during a "Lights Out" drill, which is part of a Cave CCR class and not a CCR class. That doesn't mean the instructor didn't add this drill to a CCR class. I have no first hand knowledge from the instructor or the other surviving student. I don't even know who the deceased is. All I know is that it happened and the scant few facts as I have posted about.

I did the first half of my SF2 training at Blue Grotto. I did line drills which while not specifically a part of a CCR class, really helped me to work on my trim and buoyancy. In fact, we did drills while I was running the line, just to stress me out. It's up to the student to make sure his gear is back to square one after each drill. During a boom drill (gas leak), you turn off both cylinders to simulate looking for a leak. It's easy for the instructor to hit you with yet another drill before you turn those cylinders back on. That alone can be fatal, especially if the next drill is "lights out" and your eyes are closed so you can't see the PPO2 levels diminish to dangerous levels. I'm not saying that's what happened, but it certainly is possible.

Pete, you sound like Trump. Making a statement in such a way that deniabiity is possibile. "I'm not saying that's what happened, but it certainly is possible."

 

[The Chairman]

Pete, you sound like Trump.

Rly? Now you're going to slime me for postulating a scenario? I was told it was lights out but everything else is complete conjecture on my part. I've been completely transparent about what I know and don't know. But hey, it's the internet. You feel free to trash anyone you want, I guess. You've certainly done it with me.

 

[vincent54]

I think the statement NetDoc made was a postulation. He stated as such, and the statement opens up a discussion on the possible scenarios that could lead to an accident. I am not sure how it compares to what Trump talks about.

 

[Roderick80]

That's how I read it- helpful for others who may be unfamiliar with CCR training and CCR Cave training in prticular.

 

[bl6394]

Besides knowing there was an accident - it seems that almost everything circulating now is speculation, hearsay, and third hand information.

Perhaps some useful information will come to light in this matter at a later date.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I agree with Pete and Roderick. Believe it or not you can have discussions about why accidents happen in the context of an accident thread without taking about the specific accident in question. The actual accident just serves as the catalyst for the discussion.

It doesn't have to be a proven in court fact to be "useful" information when it's a discussion about how accidents can happen.

There's a lot of value in the potential and hypothetical problems Pete is identifying for both instructors and for prospective CCR students. If you're an instructor piling drills on a student, you either need to rethink it, or be very, very observant and maintain an awareness of exactly what the status is on the student's rebreather, and if you're a student, you want to ensure that your priority and focus remains on properly managing and monitoring the rebreather - screw the other things involved in the drill if you're unable to manage everything at once.

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Speaking for my CCR instructor, I was always very confident that he knew the current status and current configuration of my rebreather nearly as well as I did, and ensured it was back in a safe and stable state at the conclusion of every drill. He also ensured that student were doing drills one at a time, even with just two students in the class.

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There is a great deal of value in pre-cognition of what can arise in a situation and the factors that should be considered in similar situation. Depending on the perspective of the person posting it's either observation or It's vicarious learning, and while the impact and effective ends decreases as you move from direct to observational to vicarious learning, the consequences of learning from someone else's mistake or misfortune are much lower and the opportunities are much more frequent - unless of course we start listening to people who think nothing should be discussed until the investigation and litigation is complete which is a) a point that is years away at best, and b) never actually happens anyway as counsel will always advise against any disclosure.

 

[tursiops]

I've reread Pete's post several times, and the statements following from others. I have no issues with Pete's post -- except for the last sentence. Bringing up scenarios is fine and can be useful, but the problem is his last sentence. The previous material in his post is in the abstract, but the last sentence brings all the hypothetical back to the Blue Grotto diver, which is unsupported and unnecessary.

 

[Reku]

I am interested in how this whole thing turns out - It'll probably be awhile before anyone knows anything that points to what actually happened though. Time will tell.

 

[rongoodman]

That alone can be fatal, especially if the next drill is "lights out" and your eyes are closed so you can't see the PPO2 levels diminish to dangerous levels. I'm not saying that's what happened, but it certainly is possible.

Is that common practice in a Cave CCR class? Closing my eyes so that I could no longer monitor my PPO2 would be a step too far for me, not at all the same as doing so during an OC drill.