Cave Diving Certification Question~~!!

[ucfdiver]

I have openly stated that I had a misunderstanding of what the limits on diving were after completing the Intro course. My appetite for diving outside my level of training is nil. So I guess it is 1/6th of gas as a planning limit (added to the others - no jumps, gaps, T's, circuits, traverses, deco, etc).

The incident does, however, raise the question of how limits are communicated to the students. I came to the course knowing I needed training, but not knowing the intricacies of the certs. I was given a copy of "Diving in Overhead Environments: Your Complete Guide to Cavern and Cave Diving" published by TDI as a manual. This was augmented by discussions and class time with the instructor.

The manual is useful and explains a lot but to my mind suffers from two major draw backs;
- Nowhere does it set out the distinction between Cavern, Intro and Full Cave divers and the limitations placed on them. As I stated earlier, a quick google search sets out the limits, but why not just print them in the manual? (I could only find a page saying my instructor will tell me what my limitations are).
- Being a manual for all cave/ cavern training it does discuss procedures, etc that are clearly beyond my current training and skill levels. I probably should not be working though these as part of my Intro training. Maybe identify which course the chapters are relevant to, and let me focus on those that I really need to know well. Indicate that I don't need to spend two days working through "complex navigation".

Apart from the confusion above, I will state that I thought the course was good and taught me a lot. No question, it is necessary before venturing into caves.

Who taught your course?

 

[Doppler]

The manual is useful and explains a lot but to my mind suffers from two major draw backs;
- Nowhere does it set out the distinction between Cavern, Intro and Full Cave divers and the limitations placed on them. As I stated earlier, a quick google search sets out the limits, but why not just print them in the manual? (I could only find a page saying my instructor will tell me what my limitations are).
- Being a manual for all cave/ cavern training it does discuss procedures, etc that are clearly beyond my current training and skill levels. I probably should not be working though these as part of my Intro training. Maybe identify which course the chapters are relevant to, and let me focus on those that I really need to know well. Indicate that I don't need to spend two days working through "complex navigation".

Apart from the confusion above, I will state that I thought the course was good and taught me a lot. No question, it is necessary before venturing into caves.

I will bring your very on-point comments and concerns up with our v-p training. Thanks



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[SuPrBuGmAn]

The manual is useful and explains a lot but to my mind suffers from two major draw backs;
- Nowhere does it set out the distinction between Cavern, Intro and Full Cave divers and the limitations placed on them. As I stated earlier, a quick google search sets out the limits, but why not just print them in the manual? (I could only find a page saying my instructor will tell me what my limitations are).

If this is the case, thats a huge shortcoming in this manual. Even the older edition, which was basically a glorified outline(and horrible on its own) gave out the restrictions for each level of diving despite being the "workbook" for all overhead cavern/cave courses.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Apart from the confusion above, I will state that I thought the course was good and taught me a lot. No question, it is necessary before venturing into caves.

If gas management wasn't discussed in your course then how do you know what else may have been missed? Gas management is the most important subject to be discussed in any course, not just a cave diving course. The fact that your instructor not only did not cover it, but violated standards in the dives he did with you is worrisome and brings to question the quality of instruction you received.

 

[Jaydubya]

In my case, it couldn't have been more clear.

I recall doing gas matching for every training dive in my Intro class using the 1/6th rule. Besides, the instructor hammering this rule into our heads, it was also very clear in the NACD training material. It was covered by multiple questions on the written exam and the limitation is also printed on the back of the training completion card.

Of course I had a different instructor and a different agency, but it's hard to see how it could have been missed.

 

[Doc Harry]

I understood the sarcasm in the 300-foot depth remark. What I meant by my comment is that, at 100 feet, you're not going to penetrate very far before you hit your turn pressure. Compared to when you're at 30 feet in Mexico caves.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Entirely correct, we should be allowed sarcasm tags. [suprbugman]I suggest these are appropriate sarcasm tags[/suprbugman]

[mayhem] is easier to spell [/mayhem] ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I understood the sarcasm in the 300-foot depth remark. What I meant by my comment is that, at 100 feet, you're not going to penetrate very far before you hit your turn pressure. Compared to when you're at 30 feet in Mexico caves.

[suprbugman]Do you use more gas in the 30' caves in FL just because of geographic location?[/mayhem]


I think I jacked that up somehow?

 

[dl348]

Nope. That's an NSS-CDS standard. No other agency spells that out in their standards. Unless the instructor is an NSS-CDS instructor, standards were violated.[/QUOTE]

Not entirely correct, it IS NOT a standards violation with PSAI or PDIC. For example, a PSAI full cave instructor CAN take an intro. diver on an apprentice level dive.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Care to tell me where it states that in the PSAI standards manual? I haven't found anything that indicates that.