CAVE DIVING ETIQUETTE

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So in short while the first three groups were parking where the gate ranger asked them to the "cave exploration" group pulled up beside the gate and rushed in to beat the folks that pulled ahead where they were told. Then got all important about it.

Ok, and this person who did this wasn't the "very high profile cave instructor and even training director for a cave association and shop owner" right? Does the gravamen of your accusation against that person boil down to being an accessory after the fact to line cutting by one of the support divers? Or was there a conspiracy to commit line cutting? Do we need a cave diving special counsel appointed?
 
But again..

How ever anyone chooses to interpret the events that transpired isn't the issue.. The issue I have is that Chris being called a liar on a public forum.. That is what needs to be addressed. Chris accurately stated what my divers said to him, he got called a liar for it, that isn't right.
 
"Character assassination is an attempt to tarnish a person's reputation. It may involve exaggeration, misleading half-truths, or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of the targeted person. It is a form of defamation and can be a form of ad hominemargument." --
Character assassination - Wikipedia

Chris may not have been lying, but there's definitely some shenanigans afoot. The original, unedited post he made claimed the training director/shop owner was responsible for this incident and he went and posted the allegations here, on Cave Drama Forum, and Facebook. For what purpose was this blasted all over social media??
 
But again..

How ever anyone chooses to interpret the events that transpired isn't the issue.. The issue I have is that Chris being called a liar on a public forum.. That is what needs to be addressed. Chris accurately stated what my divers said to him, he got called a liar for it, that isn't right.

me saying that the way that group acted towards your group was rude in a public manner is more of a issue for them than calling me a liar and attacking me. There is an amazing cognitive disconnect.

No question, me doing it this way was a bit aggressive, however, based on my experience anything less was very unlikely to have any effect at all.

Hopefully some folks will think a bit about how they treat people.

Anyone that knows me in real life or has followed me online knows I am not much of a wall flower anyway.
 
"Character assassination is an attempt to tarnish a person's reputation. It may involve exaggeration, misleading half-truths, or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of the targeted person. It is a form of defamation and can be a form of ad hominemargument." --
Character assassination - Wikipedia

Chris may not have been lying, but there's definitely some shenanigans afoot. The original, unedited post he made claimed the training director/shop owner was responsible for this incident and he went and posted the allegations here, on Cave Drama Forum, and Facebook. For what purpose was this blasted all over social media??
oh bull Ken, the original post said that members of his group, I didn't know who.

I just stated in the reply above why I posted it, I also told him yesterday when he called and made lame threats about having the CDS stop me from being a sponsor (solved and easy, i won't) that I did it in public and online for those reasons.
 
"Character assassination is an attempt to tarnish a person's reputation. It may involve exaggeration, misleading half-truths, or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of the targeted person. It is a form of defamation and can be a form of ad hominemargument." --
Character assassination - Wikipedia

Chris may not have been lying, but there's definitely some shenanigans afoot. The original, unedited post he made claimed the training director/shop owner was responsible for this incident and he went and posted the allegations here, on Cave Drama Forum, and Facebook. For what purpose was this blasted all over social media??
By the way, the one assumption that I did make that was in error was that he was in fact the leader of the group. He did inform me in the call that he wasn't. I do however feel fairly certain that given his position etc that he would be looked at as one and be part of setting the tone for the group. I may be giving too much credit.
 
"Character assassination is an attempt to tarnish a person's reputation. It may involve exaggeration, misleading half-truths, or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of the targeted person. It is a form of defamation and can be a form of ad hominemargument." --
Character assassination - Wikipedia

Chris may not have been lying, but there's definitely some shenanigans afoot. The original, unedited post he made claimed the training director/shop owner was responsible for this incident and he went and posted the allegations here, on Cave Drama Forum, and Facebook. For what purpose was this blasted all over social media??


Ken, here is the first and unedited version (which as a advisor on SB I can see)

My edits were to 1/ make sure nobody thought that Jon Kieran was in any manner involved (and I bet he wishes I didn't use his article) and 2/ to clarify that I wasn't saying that Jon Bernot pushed thru but members of his group because I worded it in a clumsy fashion.




"I know, like and respect the author of this article.

He missed the topside cave diver etiquette aspect however as was driven home to me this weekend.

I had some time Saturday and having been invited and in the area drove out to Manatee to visit an old friend who I had taught to be an instructor many years ago. He now runs a successful dive shop and like so many shops in the southeast US takes his open water students to the springs for open water dives.

I arrived while they were eating lunch as a group, the owner, his wife and half a dozen students. I was introduced as the instructors instructor and a cave instructor. Immediately one of the students said to my old student "he may know them then". Curious I asked "who" and was told the name of a very high profile cave instructor and even training director for a cave association and shop owner who apparently showed up with some others and who pushed their way in front of the group while they waited for the park to open. In doing so they explained how they "have a permit and are extending the line and need to be in first".

So there I was at lunch with a table full of people that had a very bad taste in their mouth from a bunch of cave divers that by all reports were VERY full of themselves.

In fact the group decided they would prefer to move to another location for their afternoon dives before the cave divers came back and ruined even more of the day.

Being a cave diver, cave instructor or part of a "exploration team" is more of a reason to be good representatives of our activity than allowing it to get to your head and feel it allows you to treat "simple open water students" like crap. They are people too and even potential future cave divers. they are also people who can write to the state regarding the people that had a permit that made them feel unwelcome and uncomfortable being in the vicinity of at a state park, when they paid to be there.

Just saying."
 
Curious I asked "who" and was told the name of a very high profile cave instructor and even training director for a cave association and shop owner who apparently showed up with some others and who pushed their way in front of the group while they waited for the park to open. In doing so they explained how they "have a permit and are extending the line and need to be in first".

Thanks for posting the original version its very illuminating. I think anyone reading this would take away that you were accusing the training director of (1) pushing to the front of the line and (2) making the comment in quotations. Now you've cleared up that isn't true, thanks.
 
Thanks for posting the original version its very illuminating. I think anyone reading this would take away that you were accusing the training director of (1) pushing to the front of the line and (2) making the comment in quotations. Now you've cleared up that isn't true, thanks.
As I said, as soon as I re read it I realised it was worded in a clumsy manner over that so edited it.
 
As I said, as soon as I re read it I realised it was worded in a clumsy manner over that so edited it.

And I'm praising you for it - I was feeling somewhat gaslit when I reread the OP and was deriving a different meaning than what I remembered from the first time I read it.
 
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http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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