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Cave training - GUE vs. TDI/IANTD (or other)

Discussion in 'Cave Diving' started by naick, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. rjack321

    rjack321 Captain

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
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    Didn't realize you got cave certified, did you do it in MX in SM?
     
  2. johnkendall

    johnkendall Tech Instructor

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    So much of the Mexico cave area is massive. Sure there are plenty of places that you can only get in side mount, but there's kilometers, probably hundreds of kilometers of backmount passage in Mexico. Honestly, anyone suggesting that learning to cave dive backmount in Mexico will limit you is simply trying to flog sidemount courses.
     
    peocro, EireDiver606, Preach and 5 others like this.
  3. wetb4igetinthewater

    wetb4igetinthewater Instructor, Scuba

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    John,

    I have absolutely no skin in this game. While I dive sidemount, I don't teach it, and will not teach it for the foreseeable issue. The most beautiful images inside caves of Mexico are all as I have described, where a twinset definitely is not appropriate. Sidemount is a tool. These locations of which I've seen images require that tool.
     
  4. CptTightPants21

    CptTightPants21 Solo Diver

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    Please stop. There is literally hundreds of miles of back mount accessible cave in Mexico full of the same beautiful images that can be found in a sidemount passage. Sidemount is a tool, Mexico is not a location that "requires" sidemount.
     
  5. wetb4igetinthewater

    wetb4igetinthewater Instructor, Scuba

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    I think you didn’t comprehend what I wrote.
     
  6. naick

    naick Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Belgium
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    Thanks for the input wet, but I'll have to agree with the others that, given my limited knowledge about the caves in Mexico, I find your advice misguiding. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of caves in Mexico that are very well suited to do cave training in backmount. Telling me I shouldn't do my training there with misleading information that it is not a good idea and I will be limited is poor judgement at the least.
     
  7. wetb4igetinthewater

    wetb4igetinthewater Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Seattle
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    ok, you didn't get it either. But good luck!
     
    naick likes this.
  8. naick

    naick Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Belgium
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    Enlighten me then?

    The way I see it, is I'm going there to get cave trained. If I'm not mistaken you're limited to the 1/6 gas rule for cave 1 (and usually for other first cave certs as well), usually no 'restrictions' where you have to swim single file, etc.

    As there are so many caves to choose from which perfectly suit these training dives to be completed in doubles, I indeed don't "get" your post.
     
    rjack321 likes this.
  9. johnkendall

    johnkendall Tech Instructor

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    I'm not saying that sidemount is not useful. A beginner cave diver *should* not be in those delicate locations, they should stick to the hundreds of miles of larger passage. I'm sorry, but advising that someone must learn to cave dive in Mexico in sidemount is bad advice, and you've been called on it.
    If someone *wants* to do it sidemount, then that's fine (Personally I wouldn't), but to say that they *must* is nonsense.
     
    Ayisha, elgoog, rjack321 and 6 others like this.
  10. Germie

    Germie Cave Instructor

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Netherlands
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    First there is nothing wrong with sidemount. But if you are used to dive backmounts, why not first progress in backmounts?
    On the other hand, sidemount is no rocketscience. If you are not ready for cave in backmounts, you will also not in sidemount. Finkicks won't change, and a bad bouyancy is still a bad bouyancy. Sidemount need some time to adjust it perfect. There is no time in a cave course to learn sidemounts.
    In a full cave course, you are still more or less a newbe in cave diving. That said, the most beautifull sidemount passages are a nogo with your experience then. No problem, the caves will be there also next year. and the wider passages are still really beauitifull.

    The intro to cave part means you don't do any restrictions. You can do really nice dives on a mainline. BUT: the gas amount of 1/6 till 1/3 from 2/3 is for most divers in less than 5-10 dives too restricted and will be ignored by then. This is why I am absolutely not against a completely full cave course at once IF the diver is ready. This was also a reason for me to do the course myself in 1 week.
    But yes, sometimes I have divers who decide only to do intro, or I have to advice to stop first after intro. Even that is not wrong. But make sure if you want to go for a complete course at once, you are ready.

    If you are a little bit unsure in sidemounts, but know all ins and outs with backmount, do it backmount. If you are a dedicated sidemountdiver, do it sidemount. But you still won't go to the real sidemount passages.
     
    jstrang and elgoog like this.

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