Cavern Diving (PADI)

[Diver0001]

Maybe rather than completely quelling the conversation the thread could have been split? Who wants to go back and retype all that?

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

If someone really wants all that undeleted and split into a new thread then PM me and I'll do it.

However, I would really prefer it if people could learn to resist the urge to hijack threads to start with.

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[AndyNZ]

I'm interested in the standards, equipment required and so on if you don't mind posting them, I looked around but couldn't find much on their website.

No problem. Here is a smattering of interesting points from the instructor manual.

Course Overview

To conduct a Cavern Diver course, the following is to be included:
1. The planning, organization procedures, techniques, problems, and hazards of cavern diving
2. Special equipment considerations including, but not limited to: lighting, guidelines, reel handling and redundant breathing systems
3. Proper body position and buoyancy control, air-consumption management and emergency procedures
4. Information that describes the specific hazards of cavern diving should include, but not be limited to: silting, line entanglement and breakage, disorientation from permanent lines and emergency situations unique to cavern diving

Seems fairly reasonable, love the "including, but not limited to" which means you can include lots more if it's appropriate for the students and their aspirations.

Dive Data

1. Four scuba dives, plus shallow-water line drills.

2. Penetration-training dives are to be limited to within direct sight of the cavern exit and within 40 metres/130 feet from the surface, vertical and horizontal distance included. Visibility is to exceed 12 metres/40 feet; maximum depth during training dives is 21 metres/70 feet.

My manual actually also says "no out of air drills in the overhead" - though that standard was changed a few years ago to require OOG drills in the overhead.

Student and Instructor Equipment Requirements
A. Student Equipment
1. All personal, standard diving equipment including:
a. Mask and fins (see note on next page)
b. Exposure suit appropriate for the local diving environment and depth, including: hood, boots and gloves, if needed (see note on next page).
c. Weight system (see note on next page)
d. BCD with low-pressure inflator
e. Regulator with submersible pressure gauge
f. Alternate air source suitable for sharing air with other divers and which is connected directly to the diver’s primary air supply (see note on next page).
g. A single diving cylinder with at least 1415 litres/50 cubic feet of air (see note on next page).

Again, my instructor manual is out of date - for some time the course was restricted to single tanks only, with penetration limited to 1/3 gas supply. The main reason for this was to ensure that the maximum penetration distance was reasonable. This has again be changed to allow students to wear twin cylinders in an "acceptable configuration" (sidemount allowed if the instructor is a sidemount instructor) and limit penetration to 1/6 of gas supply.

h. Complete instrumentation, including depth, time and direction (see note below).
i. Recreational Dive Planner — The Wheel or Table
j. Dive tool or knife capable of cutting guideline quickly and effectively (see note below)
k. Slate with pencil
2. Log book
3. Specialty equipment
a. Reel and guideline — one per team required; one per diver recommended.
b. Primary, battery-powered dive light
c. Secondary (backup), battery-powered dive light

You can of course quibble over the way some of the equipment is written - wetnotes vs. slate, dive computer vs. tables etc. The notes referred to above go in to some detail about variation etc. It is, again, a little dated. Suggestions like "divers should dive in single tanks of the same volume", people who have done cave training will realise that this is about simplifying turn pressures and always maintaining an adequate gas reserve. To my mind, it could be expressed in better terms - so I would definitely suggest to the OP that the whole gas management topic is one to discuss with a potential instructor to make sure that the instructors does know their stuff and will teach in accordance with accepted practice.

Academic Topics
• Conservation/landowner relations
• General terminology and geology
• Types of caves and their formations/entrance descriptions
• Silt, chemicals, gases, and related terminology
• Hazards of the environment
• General and special equipment considerations for cavern diving
• Line use
• Anti-silting techniques in cavern diving
• Communications underwater
• Psychological considerations for cavern diving
• Stress factors, sources, and effects in cavern diving
• Cavern diving procedures
• Accident analysis
• Emergency procedures

Again, nothing untoward there. With in the instructor manual there are guidelines for how to elaborate these topics - even though Rob deleted some of this thread, there is considerable discussion of cave conservation (sorry if this kick off a derailing again, Rob!). IMHO, the issue isn't whether these topics are defined by the agency - it's whether the agency instructors deliver the course in line with the course requirements. Which is just to reinforce that it's important to choose the right instructor.


I don't particularly want to post a dive by dive list of skills, but I think it is useful to see the required land drills and you can extrapolate from there what is done on the actual dives. I've edited some of the commentary out to keep the list shorter to read, and you have to kinda navigate the levels of bullet points yourself, sorry...

Land Drills
A. Demonstrate basic guideline and reel usage
1. Review guideline and reel terminology
2. Demonstrate the following while laying a line course typical of a normal cavern dive:
a. Primary tie-off
b. Secondary tie-off
c. Placements to:
• Avoid line traps
• Optimize ease of following guideline to entrance
d. Proper procedure for calling off the dive and reeling out of cavern.
e. Dive buddy providing light and assistance as needed.

B. Have students practice line-following procedures
1. Establish a line course of approximately 60 metres/200 feet in length that provides a good example of what not to do, including:
a. Leaving sight of cavern entrances
b. Passing through restrictions
c. Making unnecessary and poorly-made tie-offs
d. Crossing lines
e. Allowing line to pass into line traps
2. Have students walk this line course once, timing themselves.
a. Emphasize normal line-following procedures (students should not touch line).
3. Have students walk the line course again with their eyes closed, while timing themselves.
a. Demonstrate acceptable methods for maintaining contact with line (OK on line) prior to conducting this exercise.
b. Caution students to keep one hand in front of themselves and to step carefully.
c. [Optional] Add a false lead to the line course while students’ eyes are closed.
d. If your line course does not include false leads, demonstrate the proper procedure for negotiating tie-offs while following a guideline in low visibility.
e. Have students compare the time it took to follow the line with their eyes closed to the time it took to do so with their eyes open.
4. Demonstrate touch-contact procedures, including:
a. Positioning
b. Signals:
• Forward
• Backward
• Hold
• Line entanglement
• Emergency/out of air
c. Line-crossing procedures
d. Procedure for disentangling another diver
e. Procedure for negotiating a tie-off while following a guideline in low visibility, using touch-contact communication.
5. Have students navigate the circuit in buddy teams, with their eyes closed, using touch-contact communication.
a. Repeat this exercise at least twice, so that each student gets to be both leader and follower.
b. You may want to have students negotiate the line course in the reverse direction on the last pass.

C. Retrieve the line course. This may provide you with additional opportunities to:
1. Demonstrate proper buddy communication and interaction while reeling out of a cavern.
a. Emphasize the need to give the team leader/reel person adequate space to work.
b. Reinforce the need to maintain tension while reeling out; demonstrate techniques for doing so.
2. Show how team members can temporarily remove slack from a guideline until the team leader/reel person has the opportunity to re-establish tension.
3. Demonstrate what happens when the reel person has to pause to remove an unnecessary tie-off while exiting a high-flow system.
a. The current may turn the reel person around while he is undoing the tie-off.
b. Before the reel person can re-orient himself to the exit and re-establish tension on the line, considerable slack may be created.
D. At the conclusion of these exercises and demonstrations, each buddy team is to practice guideline and reel usage on their own.
To do this, students are to lay out a line course typical of an actual cavern dive, including:
1. Primary tie-off
2. Secondary tie-off
3. Placements
4. Buddy-interaction and communication
a. Students should repeat this exercise so that each team member has the opportunity to act as both team leader and second team member.

You get the idea, I'm sure.....

 

[Peter Guy]

Andy, Thanks. I find it interesting that the information I got a year ago when I bought the Instructor's Specialty Course Outline Package appears to have been out-of-date when it was sold to me. I'd be interested in getting the Manual to which you refer, assuming it was in any significant way different from the 72 page PDF "Manual" I have.

Just to have the card, I sometimes contemplate seeing if PADI will accept me as a PADI Cavern Instructor. I figure the only part of the Cavern Class I'd dare to even think about teaching are the OW and land skills -- not that there is a huge demand for Cavern Classes in the Puget Sound area!

 

[AndyNZ]

I think it's probably the same manual as you have, Peter - details are on the bottom left of the front page.

Product No. 70221 (Rev. 5/05) Version 1.05


Many of the specialty instructor manuals are out of date, they aren't revised in the same way as the main DIM when standards changes occur. So my Deep manual still has the wrong skills on the right dives etc etc.

Things were a bit different a few years ago, when you bought the specialty manuals they were "licensed" in a slightly different way and you'd automatically get updated manuals when standards were changed. I think there was a cost issue in terms of Adobe support for that approach, so we're now in a less agile mode of flicking backwards and forwards between the SIM and TBs.

 

[B Lo]

Thank you, Andy. The post you made with the specifics from PADI is both helpful and on-topic. It seems that the specific requirements are reasonable. I am of the mind that I may be best looking for an instructor who certifies both for PADI and another (more cave-oriented) organization. That way, I can obtain both the PADI cert and get some additional backing. I'm fairly confident that most instructors would be willing to combine the requirements so that I wouldn't need to take two full sets of classes in order to obtain the certification from two agencies.

 

[ianr33]

I am of the mind that I may be best looking for an instructor who certifies both for PADI and another (more cave-oriented) organization. That way, I can obtain both the PADI cert and get some additional backing.

I think thats an excellent idea.
Taking it a stage further though,why even bother with the PADI cert ? What does it give you that a cert from,say, NACD, will not?

 

[AndyNZ]

Taking it a stage further though,why even bother with the PADI cert ? What does it give you that a cert from,say, NACD, will not?

I'm not making any value judgement - either positive or negative, but some people are working there way towards getting the PADI Master Scuba Diver rating. The NACD course wouldn't count, the PADI one would. If MSD something they feel has value, even if that value is the sense of achievement, then all power to them.

Certainly dual certification is possible (from a PADI perspective), but there will be an additional cost involved for the extra certification - not sure what the NACD costs are, but the processing fee for a PADI cert is probably around US$30-50 or so.

 

[B Lo]

Maybe it sounds a little nuts, but I like having all my certs on a single card. PADI has combined them for me thus far --> AOW+Nitrox, etc. I know that sounds like a terrible reason - and maybe it is - but my experiences with the PADI instructors I personally know have been universally positive. That said, maybe that doesn't result from the organization, but I don't want to knock what ain't broke.

I'm not making any value judgement - either positive or negative, but some people are working there way towards getting the PADI Master Scuba Diver rating. The NACD course wouldn't count, the PADI one would. If MSD something they feel has value, even if that value is the sense of achievement, then all power to them.

Certainly dual certification is possible (from a PADI perspective), but there will be an additional cost involved for the extra certification - not sure what the NACD costs are, but the processing fee for a PADI cert is probably around US$30-50 or so.

 

[AndyNZ]

but my experiences with the PADI instructors I personally know have been universally positive. That said, maybe that doesn't result from the organization, but I don't want to knock what ain't broke.

Good on you, hope you find a Cavern instructor that holds up the reputation!!