CESA - why? I'll never run low on air!

[in_cavediver]

I said this earlier in the thread - Its all about stupid terminology. PADI clearly defines CESA as the blow and go variety. But what about the other agencies? It sound like NAUI calls and ESA a CESA unless it a buoyant ascent.

I disagree with Rick about the definition of CESA he used but completely agree with everything else. My only bone to pick on that is if a new diver came along and saw this and got really confused by it. Fortuneately, many souls keeping bringing this up so there is not much chance of it.

 

[fisherdvm]

SSI, which does not teach CESA, goes as followed:

SSI, Open Water Diver, 2002, pp. 3-30 to 3-35.

"""Ascent procedures:

1. Normal ascent
2. Air sharing ascent
3. Alternate air sharing ascent
4. Emergency Swimming Ascent (ESA) - ..... Keep your second-stage in your mouth, hold your weight system release with the right hand, kick toward the surface, and vent air from the BC to control your ascent, try to maintain a slow ascent rate.

The reason for being poised to ditch weights is that in many accidents the diver successfully reached the surface, only to sink back down the water. .... This leads us to the main objective of the emergency buoyant ascent.

5. Emergency Buoyant Ascent (EBA)

The emergency buoyant ascent is done in the case of a sudden loss of air which requires an immedate return to the surface. To perform the EBA:
a. Keep your second stage in your mouth.
b. Immediately ditch the weight system at depth, using the quick draw method. This provides positive buoyancy, which begins lifting the diver. From depths beyond which the wet suit has lost its buoyancy, a gentle kick will assist the ascnent.
c. Vent air from the lungs by contiously exhaling....."

 

[fisherdvm]

PADI does not know what "mastery" is ... why would then know what a CESA is?

Unfortunately, when the overwhelming majority uses a word a certain way, it becomes the definition of the word.

Example would be "Cystic acne". The term has stuck for decades, and it does not have true cyst in the majority of the lesions we called cystic. It has only pustules and abcesses.

Other would be "Gay". The original definition has been out of use, and now it carried different connotation.

CESA in the mind of most divers (who are PADI initiated) will be how PADI defined it.

 

[fisherdvm]

Unfortunately, I can not type all there is in the PADI book, nor the SSI book. They are different, but yet similar.

In PADI - CESA is controlled (meaning not buoyant), and swimming, and is exhaling - as in a true OOA situation. But it is not buoyant CESA, which is the same, except without your weight belt. I guess if it were buoyant, it wouldn't be controlled then right? so we would drop the C from esa, and called BESA??

In SSI - ESA is essentially the same as a normal ascent, except at a faster rate. You are breathing, in out in out, but you are ready to drop your weight if you ran out of air. They do not emphasize the need for saying ahhhhh or continous exhalation. Which I think should be mentioned, especially if your regulator is wet, busted, or failed.

In SSI - EBA is Buoant ESA. They do say to "Vent air from the lungs by continously exhaling". It is not the same as CESA in PADI, because it is BUOYANT CESA.

Personally, I think I would prefer non-buoyant CESA, as PADI teaches. It will minimize the risk of DCS if you are near the surface.

Buoyant CESA might be better if you are deeper, and might be at risk for drowning if you didn't ascent fast enough, or your carbon dioxide load from swimming is to high, and might trigger an inhalation of a wet regulator or when you don't have a regulator at all in your mouth.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Lessee here... 135 posts ago I posted the following...
Here it is again...

I guess we need to define terms here... when I say "CESA" my emphasis is on "Controlled" and not restricted to "normal" or "out of gas." If I'm reading you right then what I'm calling a "CESA" is called an "ESA" by PADI if you have gas. If that's the case then I'm talking about "ESAs" here, or even "modified ESAs" because I'll accept an ascent rate that's greater than 60FPM for myself. (This is not to advise any of you to do that - if you do you'll die immediately!)
I was raised in the 60/60/60 school... "emergency" connotes something outside that
The shift to "buoyant" is made when you make the "I'm not going to make it" decision and you decide your only option is an uncontrolled ascent.
Rick

Rick

 

[fisherdvm]

Sorry, Rick, I am very narrow minded, I believed that the diving community shared the same text book. It is hard to comprehend the complexity of ESA, BESA, CESA, Mesa, and Yousa...

Too bad we don't all use the same text book, the same standard, and the same curriculum.

It has been a very good and rewarding discussion though... Thanks for your patience to us beginners and inexperience. You have never been rude to me on this board, and I appreciate it.

 

[fire_diver]

So the only emergencies that might require a safe, rapid return to the surface involve being out of air?
*** once again, this thread is about Controlled (as in "in control") Emergency (as in "I have an emergency other than OOA), Swimming (as opposed to buoyant) Ascents. If you have someting constructive to contribute to a discussion of this type emergency ascent, please do so. If you want to argue that the only CESA is a C(OOA)ESA then you're in the wrong thread.
Start your own and discuss it there.
Why is this concept so hard for you and String to grasp?
Rick

Damn Ricky, who pissed in your Cheerios today? You can hold on to what ever definition of terminology you want. But the fact is, all the training of the last decade have defined a CESA, ESA or whatever version they use as a "blow and go." Yes, you can have emergencies other than OOA, but that only involves swimming or towing a breathing diver to surface. That doesn't fall under the definition of the term. Argue all you want, but find me one, modern, BOW book that defines a CESA the way you explain.

Comrade Stroke

 

[Rick Murchison]

Damn Ricky, who pissed in your Cheerios today? You can hold on to what ever definition of terminology you want. But the fact is, all the training of the last decade have defined a CESA, ESA or whatever version they use as a "blow and go." Yes, you can have emergencies other than OOA, but that only involves swimming or towing a breathing diver to surface. That doesn't fall under the definition of the term. Argue all you want, but find me one, modern, BOW book that defines a CESA the way you explain.

Comrade Stroke

In post #1 I defined what we were talking about here in this thread - whether that fits the PADI bible I frankly don't care.
In post #35 I said "... what I'm calling a "CESA" is called an "ESA" by PADI if you have gas. If that's the case then I'm talking about "ESAs" here, ..."
Now if that ain't clear enough for you, I give up.
My purpose in starting the thread was to explore situations that would make a controlled emergency swimming ascent that was other than "out-of-gas" prudent. I'm not talking about a "blow and go." You guys aren't interested in discussing that, because you can't accept the term. And there doesn't seem to be any way to discuss the issue with you because of it.
So, it's you pissin' in my Cheerios and wasting space in what should be a thread about ways to handle diving emergencies rather than the restrictive "blow and go" definition of CESA.
What do you want to call a controlled swimming ascent when it is an appropriate way to handle an emergency (NOT OOA)?
How about CEA? Can I use that?
Rick

 

[fire_diver]

My purpose in starting the thread was to explore situations that would make a controlled emergency swimming ascent that was other than "out-of-gas" prudent. I'm not talking about a "blow and go."

Rick

Well, you DID name the thread CESA- I'll never run low on air. So, there you go. The title started the discussion on CESA.

Maybe you should have titled it, "Emergencies ascents other than OOA"

Becuase, quite frankly, by the time a late-comer reads through an entire thread, the first couple posts are lost. All that remains to be answered to is the last page we read. And the title tends to skew the looking glass.

So, sorry if I ruined your cereal

Comrade Stroke