Challenging Poor Buddy Skills -

[Phil_C]

This thread comes as a spin off from a long discussion elsewhere, and I think merits discussion it its own right -

The scenario involved a very experienced and competent diver (an instructor) who showed a tendency to 'wander off' and do their own thing during a dive and not maintain good buddy skills. In real life the scenario had a tragic ending.

Has this happened to you, what did you do, with hindsight what would you do different?

So basically three questions

1/ - "How do I confront an 'experienced' buddy about their behaviour"
2/ - "What can I do if the experienced diver is not open to feedback"
3/ - "How do I, as an experienced diver, remain open to feedback from my buddies"

Phil

 

[ScubaInChicago]

This thread comes as a spin off from a long discussion elsewhere, and I think merits discussion it its own right -

The scenario involved a very experienced and competent diver (an instructor) who showed a tendency to 'wander off' and do their own thing during a dive and not maintain good buddy skills. In real life the scenario had a tragic ending.

Has this happened to you, what did you do, with hindsight what would you do different?

So basically three questions

1/ - "How do I confront an 'experienced' buddy about their behaviour"
2/ - "What can I do if the experienced diver is not open to feedback"
3/ - "How do I, as an experienced diver, remain open to feedback from my buddies"

Phil

1) If I'm underwater, maybe a finger wagging...
2) If it continues, the Big Blue Thumb comes out...The thumb isn't a question and demands an acknowledgement.
3) Communication is key, if diving with an unfamiluar dive buddy, some basics should be covered before the dive. If the blame is on me, I'll be in the hot seat to explain my actions and the other way around. If we can't agree and execute a dive safely, I'll pack my toys and leave.

 

[Superlyte27]

Depends on the situation, environment, relationship.

 

[TSandM]

I think this is a really good question, because these problems do come up.

During a dive, if someone just isn't paying attention or isn't making an effort to "stay found", I have been known to abandon my own purposes for the dive and just decide to stick to the person like a burr. As long as they don't totally outswim me, I'm pretty good at it. It's annoying, and were I going to dive with the person again, it would need discussion. However, deliberately leaving the team is one of the few "I don't want to dive with you again" things in my book.

But there are other things, like buddies who don't want to do pre-dive checks, or who keep turning their fins into your face, or otherwise make the dive uncomfortable or unhappy. I always try to start the discussion by asking, "How did that go for you? Anything you'd like me to do differently next time?" That's a reasonable opening to make it a two-way street, although some divers are more open to critique than others. I'm lucky that I mostly dive in a group where debriefing is part of the culture, which helps.

But if anyone has any tips on how to debrief dive problems with a buddy who is also your HUSBAND, please let me know!

 

[Chugwhump]

The best buddy I have ever had is my 19cf pony tank with a reg on it strapped to my B.C. alongside my primary cylinder.
It never gets lost, it never goes up without me, and I have never had to cut short a dive because it was cold, bored, or not feelin' it.
I dive with many people that are "same ocean" divers.
They know it, I know it, and it works for us.

Chug
Your experience may be different.

 

[gypsyjim]

Such a complicated question.

There have been divers I have dived with who I will never get into the water with again, because they were horrid buddies, very poor and/or very selfish diver, who would not listen to another diver.

I have also dived with divers who were so much more accomplished than myself, that I would not dare critique them, even if I saw something I thought worth commenting on. I might ask a question or two, to see if they were receptive to dialog, but most likely I would bite my tongue and just watch.

Then, there are some buddies that were difficult to remain with, where I had to devote my dive to remaining close to them. I might certainly think twice before getting into the water with them a second time, but the final choice would depend on whether they responded to discussion after that first dive, and showed some interest in paying closer attention. I don't mind devoting dives to helping a newer diver, and watching over them more closely, if they show signs of wanting to learn, and grow as a diver. Diving with such a new diver can be a lot of fun, as I see them discovering the joys of diving.

In the end I do not have a concrete answer to any of the three questions. I will, and do adjust my diving to the style of my buddies fairly often, and I will judge each situation independently. After the incident in the thread that this thread has sprung from, I know that I am going to have to think a lot deeper about some of these choices when they happen in the future.

Besides the thread that this discussion sprung from, I am also following the incident discussed here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...-skaneateles-lake-new-york-9.html#post6947714

Here is an example of how even the buddy system can fail at times, when things happen too fast to prevent panic, even with buddies just a few feet away, and following all of the rules.

 

[00wabbit]

Do you mind posting a link to the thread that spawned this discussion? I might have missed it and I like to keep up on the incidents in case I can learn something from them.

 

[D_B]

something to think about
... subscribed

Do you mind posting a link to the thread that spawned this discussion? I might have missed it and I like to keep up on the incidents in case I can learn something from them.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...ing-kurnell-nsw-australia-89.html#post6950797

 

[DaleC]

Rather than immediately assume poor buddy skills (though it may translate that way) one might spend some time reflecting on what objectives that buddy has in regards to diving and if there isn't a way to create better buddy awareness within that.

I'm thinking of several buddies who love photography and become very consumed by that while diving. I would be constantly miffed if I expected them to act as a non photo buddy. If I want to dive with them I have to understand their perspective. From there we can discuss how I can achieve my goals while supporting theirs. This usually means I have to position myself better but they also then pay more attention to me because I point out subjects for them.

Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the objectives are too different.

I have one friend whom I really like but they want to cover far too much distance during a dive. Their philosophy is the more ground you cover, the more you see. So they set off at a gallop and never stop. I just don't want to dive like that and usually buddy with someone else even though I totally enjoy their company during the SI.

It's kind of funny that for some reason we expect to be able to dive with everyone just because our initial training suggests something called the buddy system. I don't like to dance/hike/drink coffee or boff every person I come in contact with, just because.

 

[Mike]

I think this whole 3 questions and this scenario are over thinking the situation.

If a buddy takes off, you follow them until you feel you're being put in danger, then you abandon them.

If you get a chance to see them again after the dive you confront them about their behavior. If they won't change it you don't dive with them again.

End of story, end of all the complicated what ifs and soul searching.It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. If they take off you follow, you might not like, it they might be screwing up your dive, but that's tough, buddies stay together, if they break the rule that doesn't mean you do, you sacrafice your dive to stay with them. If staying with them turns dangerous to yourself, abandon them. All done. Confront them back on the boat and if they aren't going to change their stupid ways them them to F off and don't dive with em.

You dance with who you brought to the dance. You dance till the music stops. Then you can discuss how much they suck and you don't like em stepping on your toes, if they don't stop you don't dance with em again.