Climate Change Pays a Visit to the Caribbean and Coral Reefs Suffer? Do you believe t

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The greenhouse effect refers to circumstances where the short wavelengths of visible light from the sun pass through a transparent medium and are absorbed, but the longer
wavelengths of the infrared re-radiation from the
heated objects are unable to pass through that
medium. The trapping of the long wavelength radiation leads to more heating and
a higher resultant temperature. Besides the heating of an automobile by sunlight
through the windshield and the namesake example of heating the greenhouse by
sunlight passing through sealed, transparent windows, the greenhouse effect has
been widely used to describe the trapping of excess heat by the rising
concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. The carbon
dioxide strongly absorbs infrared and does not allow as much of it to escape
into space.
:thumb: Better. I think you've got it now.
 
We don't want to spend any money of our tax dollars on global warming, we can't afford to, we are 16 trillion in debt and counting. We just hit a milestone for the first time our debt is now equal to our total economy.
But what you fail to see is that the effects of global climate change affect everyone and cost everyone billions of dollars per year.

First point that the term "global warming" is very misleading to many people. For example, predictions are that if the gulf stream changes course, then western Europe will have arctic like weather conditions. So, to be more accurate the term "climate change" is far closer to the true result that most people are likely to see.

Several years ago it had been theorized that one of the results from climate change would be more violent weather in many regions of the world. There has been a continuing trend of increasing numbers and strength of hurricanes in the Americas as well as stronger and more frequent Typhoons in Asia. This year we also saw tornadoes in New York and the normal tornado season in the US started very early.

I am not going to list every occurrence of extreme weather here. A simple search will show multiple instances of increased flooding, drought, storms, cold and hot temperature records around the world.

The fact that the weather is changing to become more extreme is not a question of doubt. This is hard irrefutable evidence based on real measurements of real weather.

The other important fact to quieten the naysayers is this, while it is true that there have been multiple recorded instances of massive climate variation in the past, these have occurred over 100,000's or millions of years. What we are recording is a massive change in global climate at an unprecedented rate of change. That is the thing which is so worrying.

Why should we, the taxpayers be concerned with this?

If you are a resident of one of these four states then you really should be concerned about the weather because these are the four most expensive places to live in the US based on storm damage.
  • Florida
  • North Carolina
  • Georgia
  • Alabama

With costs of the severe weather adjusted to 2002 dollars, hurricane Andrew cost the US approximately 36 billion dollars. The drought of 1980 cost over 48 billion while the 1988 droughts cost almost 62 billion.
As for hurricane Katrina in 2005, it is estimated to have cost the US approx US$80 - 100 billion and 1,833 lives were lost.

With roughly 150 million tax returns per year, that means that Katrina alone would add over US$600 to everyone's tax bill if shared out equally.

On top of that, every time your insirance company hikes the premium on your house, car or life insurance, remember the probable cause is the weather. Forget about the oild companies, government or a bunch of scientists for a moment. Your insurance company is wetting its pants about this trend, and you are going to be paying higher premiums as a result.

The figures for the first 11 months of 2011 look like this

EventDateCostDeaths
October Northeast Snow Storm**October 29, 2011$3+ billion27
Tropical Storm Lee**September 8, 2011$1+ billion13
Hurricane IreneAugust 26-28, 2011$7.2 billion46
Missouri and Souris River FloodingSpring-Summer 2011$2 billion5
Texas Drought & WildfiresSpring-Summer 2011$5.2 billion2*
Mississippi River FloodingSpring-Summer 2011$5.0 billion1*
Midwest, Southeast, Plains Severe Storms**June 16-22, 2011$1.25 billion0
Midwest/Southeast Tornado OutbreakMay 21-27, 2011$8 billion177
Midwest, Southeast, Plains Severe StormsApril 19-21, 2011$1.0 billion0
2011 Super OutbreakApril 25-30, 2011$9.0 billion321
Midwest/Southeast Tornado OutbreakApril 14-16, 2011$2.5 billion38
Southeast/Midwest Severe StormsApril 8-11, 2011$2.25 billion0
Midwest/Southeast Severe StormsApril 3-5, 2011$2.5 billion9
Groundhog Day BlizzardJanuary 29-February 3, 2011$3.9 billion36

So you have 675 deaths and over US$ 53 billion.

Remember, everything above is not a theory, it is a fact. Continuing extreme weather is going to be costing you more and more in taxes to repair the damage and insurance premiums.

Some of us don't implicitly just believe everything we are told. There are still some people in our country who question what is obviously incorrect.

In the US in high school and college, subjects that have political attachments are basically taught as indoctrination instead of as unbiased education, so some of us smell a rat quickly on certain subjects.

I am not American so I find it difficult to understand how can you say that research on global climate change has any political connection. When the tornado comes, is it somehow going to avoid hitting any houses where the owner voted for the right party? Is the floodwater going to magically stop like Moses and the Red Sea just because you believe in Big Daddy?

Weather affects all of us (especially in the four US states I mentioned earlier.

Now, onto the matter of human effect and mitigation. We may not be able to calculate the precise effect man has had, but the evidence supports the fact that the extreme changes we see in global weather are unprecedented in the rate of change and they coincide with human industrial activity. That there is a correlation between these two facts is clear to see.

The question comes up that non-believers are suggesting that the two things are just coincidental, whereas the people that believe this theory suggest they are linked.

So what we have here is a gamble.

If you believe then you would be supporting the development of green technologies to replace current polluting industries. The US still burns coal to generate 52% of its electricity for example, moving away from coal may help the climate but will have side effects like reducing deaths from air pollution, cancers and allergies. You would buy a more fuel efficient car (and save money as a by-product), you would add insulation to your house to burn less fuel (again saving money as a side effect). Possibly the most important thing you could do would be to get the country away from an oil based economy where you are politically linked to regions of the world that are costing you trillions of dollars in military spending. And finally, when you pass your place on this planet onto your children, then their lives would be that little bit better.

Or, you could bury your head in the sand, burn all the oil, trash the place and have your kids hate you.

Being a non-gambling type, I would prefer to go the way of caution and that has nothing to do with politics, just plain economic sense.

---------- Post Merged at 10:10 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:02 AM ----------

Different wave lenghts would have sufficed without the insult. That's the second time in this thread you've personally insulted me. I'm done with you.

Where did I insult you personally?

You really should re-evaluate how you approach a discussion. You came bumbling in, denying the effects of global warming, claimed that everything is okay because you have faith in the G-word, then you admit you don't know anything about the most fundamental aspect of the mechanism of global climate change. Finally, because you seemed unwilling to do your own research, I gave you links that explained it.

Personally, I know nothing about fiscal policy or heart surgery, but if I wanted to enter a debate on them I would make sure I educated myself on the topic before announcing my opinions.
 
That's the issue. Many of the founding fathers of global warming have changed their minds as new data has been revealed. Everything you posted is not considered fact to everyone and is up for debate. While you might want to take all of it as indisputable, many don't.

You live in Japan which is the number one most brain washed country on the planet in regard to global warming myths, with 99% of the population aware of the theory of global warming and 91% believing that humans are causing it.

In the United States 97% are aware of the concept of global warming with only 49% believing that humans are causing it.

The Global Warming Myth Belief By Country

In your country 9 out of 10 people buy in to the myth, in the United States its only 1 out of 2. We've got a bit more history of being freer thinkers than the Japanese who fall in line like lemmings heading toward any cliff that they believe they should be jumping off of.
 
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Mike, sorry to break it to you but the US has NO history compared to japan. You wherent even a country untill long after the gunpowder was introduced and you could slay all the indians.

And if half the americans is ignorant, thats pretty much in line with how the rest of the world see the average american - close minded.
 
Mike, sorry to break it to you but the US has NO history compared to japan. You wherent even a country untill long after the gunpowder was introduced and you could slay all the indians.

And if half the americans is ignorant, thats pretty much in line with how the rest of the world see the average american - close minded.

LOL. Thanks for your history lesson. However, jealousy of America doesn't confirms the myth of global warming.

Back to reality --

New Study Finds Half of Reported Temperature Rise Is Fictitious

A reanalysis of U.S. surface temperature station data shows temperatures are rising only half as much as claimed by the U.S. Historical Climatology Network and other government gatekeepers of temperature data. The reanalysis is the first using the Siting Classification System devised by the MATEO-France French national meteorological service and recently approved by the World Meteorological Organization.

he new analysis, conducted by a team of scientists led by surface station expert Anthony Watts, shows government gatekeepers are improperly reporting double the temperature increase that is occurring in the real world. Fully 92 percent of the overstated temperature rise results from erroneous and scientifically unjustified government “adjustments” to the raw temperature data. The authors note global temperature trends are unlikely to be substantially different from those reported in their new analysis.

Lead author Anthony Watts explained how government officials overlook meaningful siting problems that add fictitious warming to the raw data.

“The USHCN is one of the main metrics used to gauge the temperature changes in the United States,” wrote Watts in a press release announcing the findings. “The first wide-scale effort to address siting issues, Watts (2009), a collated photographic survey, showed that approximately 90% of USHCN stations were compromised by encroachment of urbanity in the form of heat sinks and sources, such as concrete, asphalt, air conditioning system heat exchangers, roadways, airport tarmac, and other issues. This finding was backed up by an August 2011 U.S. General Accounting Office investigation and report titled: Climate Monitoring: NOAA Can Improve Management of the U.S. Historical Climatology Network.”
 
Mike,

Since you are obviously fond of conspiracy theories. Why don't you look into the influence and money the Koch brothers have put into the "anti" global warming groups.

I'm looking forward to hearing of your research.
 
Mike,

Since you are obviously fond of conspiracy theories. Why don't you look into the influence and money the Koch brothers have put into the "anti" global warming groups.

I'm looking forward to hearing of your research.

Let's not clutter the discussion with non-sense. For free I've already given you enlightenment based of your sides research on cow farts and even solved the riddle of the cause of the dinosaur extinction. Anything else and I'll have to charge you a fee for the education.
 
That's the issue. Many of the founding fathers of global warming have changed their minds as new data has been revealed. Everything you posted is not considered fact to everyone and is up for debate. While you might want to take all of it indisputable, many don't.
The term is climate change.

Please be specific, which part of "everything you posted" is not fact. I made it quite clear to distinguish the effects of climate on cost to taxpayers apart from the points that might be questioned. Do you doubt that hurricane Katrina happened? Do you doubt it cost the US taxpayers and insurance companies close to US$100 billion? Or do you think it was all faked? Do you think that tornadoes in New York are normal? Do you know what desertification is? (You should if you life in the north western United States), Ever heard of Lake Chad?

As I said, Global Warming (if you insist) is real enough to take seriously. According to this extract, a majority of Americans tend to agree.

So they conducted a survey of more than 1,000 Americans ages 18 and older between March 12 and March 30, 2012.
Their results showed that 72 percent of Americans believe global warming worsened the unusually warm winter of December 2011 and January 2012; 70 percent said it worsened the record high summer temperatures in the U.S. in 2011; the drought in Texas and Oklahoma in 2011 (69 percent); record U.S. snowfall in 2010 and 2011 (61 percent); the Mississippi River floods in the spring of 2011 (63 percent); and Hurricane Irene (59 percent).

EDIT: By the way "they" in the above quote is Yale University.

As for the causes behind climate change, I am only willing to discuss if you are going to back up discussion with facts.


You live in Japan which is the number one most brain washed country on the planet in regard to global warming myths, with 99% of the population aware of the theory of global warming and 91% believing that humans are causing it.

It's true that I live in Japan. But I see nothing else in your statement that is correct. There is a racial stereotype and an insult or two but where are your facts? Please quote a link from where you are getting your data, I would be very interested.

Has anyone ever done a scientific survey of which nation is the most brainwashed?

I could easily flip that around in your face and say, " Americans are brainwashed into believing that other countries have been brainwashed". It has just about as much veracity as your statement i.e. none.

Also, since I am not Japanese then what makes you think that I think the way they do? You are making a lot of supposition with no basis in fact.

In the United States 97% are aware of the concept of global warming with only 49% believing that humans are causing it.
Can you support those numbers or did you pluck them out of the air?

But here is an interesting point. In 2000, GWB became president of the United States with 47.87% of the popular vote. Furthermore the turnout was only around 50% so he actually took office with only around 23.9% of American adults voting for him.

Hmm, I'd say that compared to that figure, your figure of 49% of Americans support the man made global warming theory seems pretty darn high.

In your country 9 out of 10 people buy in to the myth,....
That's quite an amazing sentence. In just 13 words (including numerals) you managed to make three mistakes;
1. Its not my country.
2. Please show me where and how people are buying into anything? I don't see people in Japan buying anything related with Global Climate Change.
3. It is not a myth, it is a scientific theory you are referring to. Do you think that calling it a myth when the floodwaters rise will prevent your house floating away?

in the United States its only 1 out of 2. We've got a bit more history of being freer thinkers than the Japanese who fall in line like lemmings heading toward any cliff that they believe they should be jumping off of.

I have lived in three countries, I have spent lengthy periods in 10 others and visited more than 60 countries in total. Racial stereotyping and insults do not help your cause, they just make you sound uneducated.

If you want a discussion, please use facts and evidence.
 
Ahhh. . . I see. So nonsense is anything you don't believe as a matter of faith?

How about aliens and space ships that look like Boeing 707's? Or golden tables that are shown only to you? How about virgin birth?

So don't confuse science with faith unless you're willing to look at both sides
 
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