CNS toxicity symptom occurrence...or not

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Instead, I am thinking that YOU likely felt some level of concern with the ppO2 of your gas choices that led you to respond the way you did to what was probably a thimble jelly sting based on your description of what you saw in the water.

The armchair psychology continues unabated, so I'll try this one more time. It was not the knowledge I'd spent a brief time at 1.6+ pO2 during the bottom phase that was going through my mind at the time -- it was that I'd just spent over 15 minutes on 100% O2, much of that at a 20' stop, after a relatively long/deep dive. While I knew I was not over my CNS single dive exposure, I also knew I was close to it (largely because of the shallow time on 100%) and that bad things can still occur at the margins.

So, why didn't I consider that what I was feeling was a sting and not a symptom? Foremost, I think it's because the sensation was quite unusual to me. I've been stung by jellys and hydroids before and while the intensity has vaired from 'eh' to 'AHHHH' they've always been more direct/localized/sting-like than the feeling I experienced here. Moreover, because there wasn't anything in the water with me that I saw during the shallow stops, much less in my face around the time of the sensation, that would have put the possibility in my mind. While I have a distinct recollection of seeing what you have likely correctly IDed as thimble jellys at a deeper stop, they were forgotten until I was back on the boat trying to figure out why the left side of my face still felt prickly/tingly. Whether my failure to consider the possibility of a jelly sting was an unreasonable jump or not, I can say that under similar circumstances I'd go to a lower pO2 again...it was just too weird a feeling without a confirmably benign explanation to not do so.

But what are the lessons learned for me? First, don't hesitate when faced with a possible symptom/indication of an oncoming problem: stop, think, act. I'm happy with the first part of my reaction here, going to a lower pO2 and ascending to the top of my stop without hesitation after concluding I was experiencing an unusual facial sensation after an extended period on 100% O2. Knowing what DDM has mentioned about potential effects of dropping the pO2 too much after a long O2 exposure, I'd go to my 50% if I had it to do over.

I'm still on the fence about my other decision, which was to stay in at the stop on a lower pO2 rather than bail out and surface at once because to my contingency profile I had finished deco quite some time ago. DD has expressed the one side of the issue rather well: bailing out to a limited deco profile has serious DCS risks associated with it. On the other hand, I knew I had cut a relatively conservative bailout profile for this dive (VPM +2 square 205' profile, versus VPM +3/GFS 75% multilevel computer generated profile) and I was only running the low surfacing GF that I was because I normally had a lot of work to do soon after surfacing (climbing a less than optimal ladder/transom with a lot of tanks in the open ocean)...I could have mitigated the exercise risk by ascending, establishing buoyancy, and just waiting a spell there on the surface.

The real lesson learned for me is that while I've always generated a bailout profile that is more aggressive than I would like but not so aggressive that I consider following it a serious DCS risk and thought generally about when I might need it, I've never really rigorously considered the go/no go decision for it. In this case, that caused me to hestitate to bail out and instead stay in the water hoping that a pO2 reduction would be sufficient despite training that divers have still toxed minutes after experiencing symptoms and reducing pO2 (now I think DDM's comments bring some light to bear on that subject). DD said earlier that part of the problem of this dive was that I almost scared myself out of the water and omitted deco time; I'm of the opinion that given the risks posed by oxtox, the sensation and context I had, and the fact that a reasonable contingency profile said I could go up right away, the main problem was my failure to rely on the bailout plan I'd constructed for, in part, this kind of problem.

The hypothetical of how I'd of reacted at 170' or 205' on air or 23% to the same sensation, equally unexplained, is a good one. Ascending at a prompt but not excessive rate to the first stop would be my first instinct, since that would be the only pO2 lowering technique available to me. I do not think I would have considered omitting any deco stops but I would been more likely to go to the contingency profile, not so much to get out of the water faster but to limit how much O2 exposure I'd have for the rest of the dive. The real difference would have been how much I was interested in communicating to the other divers in the water with me: if I'm going to have to spend the next 40 minutes worrying about an possible tox event rather than the next 4 minutes at 10' doing the same thing, I am going to want to be all but attached to someone who might possibly be able to help keep me from drowning myself. But at that point, I think I would simply accept that I have deco I have to do and if a hit is coming then it's coming.

However, I know if I were planning to dive an enhanced air mix to those depths, among my foremost concerns would be the MOD of the mix I was using and calculating what my PPO2 might be. I suspect Dr. Lecter was aware of those things as well, which may have precipitated his concern about the cumulative affects of that plus the 100% O2 at 20'.

True enough, but the thing is that while 23% is an annoyance for what is better done as an air dive, it simply doesn't move the CNS needle much more than 21% does. And my personal comfort level with bottom O2 exposure is pretty far from what occured on this dive. If we were talking about a 20 minute, 240' square profile air dive, then I'd be much more worried about 23%. Scratch that: 240' is my personal air MOD, and you would never catch me that deep on 23% absent a true emergency.
 
Fair enough, thanks for the well thought out responses. I would argue that armchair psychology is at least 50% of why this board exists, or at least a good portion of why I like to read it. If you are forced to think about why somebody else reacted the way they did to an incident, it can help you figure out how you will react in the future. I had the good fortune to have a rescue diving instructor talk to us about dealing with surfacing a vomiting victim a few weeks before I found myself at 80 feet down in Belize about to vomit. If I hadn't had that discussion with him, I might have tried to surface instead of calmly grabbing my buddy for buoyancy control and feeding the fish 3 times over the next 5 minutes or so. So thanks for posting this so we can poke and prod at what you did and why. I doubt I will ever find myself diving the kinds of dives you guys do, but I always like to be thinking about how I would react in all kinds of situations
 
Fair enough, thanks for the well thought out responses. I would argue that armchair psychology is at least 50% of why this board exists, or at least a good portion of why I like to read it. If you are forced to think about why somebody else reacted the way they did to an incident, it can help you figure out how you will react in the future. I had the good fortune to have a rescue diving instructor talk to us about dealing with surfacing a vomiting victim a few weeks before I found myself at 80 feet down in Belize about to vomit. If I hadn't had that discussion with him, I might have tried to surface instead of calmly grabbing my buddy for buoyancy control and feeding the fish 3 times over the next 5 minutes or so. So thanks for posting this so we can poke and prod at what you did and why. I doubt I will ever find myself diving the kinds of dives you guys do, but I always like to be thinking about how I would react in all kinds of situations


Well said. And like you I am not a tech diver but enjoy every opportunity to expand my knowledge of diving. I admit, I also enjoy the give and take of the discussions on SB.
 
I'm still confused about why the OP is having to 'decide' from this incident, when every technical training agency in existence provides a clear protocol in relation to OxTox; whether as a response to a failed gas switch or in the advent of potential OxTox signs/symptoms.

It concerns me that the entire debate has progressed without any reference to such protocols...


For reference for those participants/viewers not trained in technical diving; and in attempt to dispel any 'black arts' notions that may exist:

1) 100% O2 for 15 minutes deco at 6-3m (PPO2 1.6 to 1.3) isn't exceptional at all. This would still be considered quite 'light' by most technical divers. In most cases, technical divers wouldn't even plan'air breaks' (a period of time on back/travel/leaner gas to decrease oxtox risk) until around 25 minutes. It is entirely possible to plan your deco/gas selection to retain a lower max pO2 in both bottom and deco phases. There is no obligation to use pO2 1.6 (nor should it be used if other factors indicate the deco won't be 'at rest' or other oxtox pre-disposing factors may exist).

2) PO2 above 1.6 (deco) or 1.45 (bottom/working) isn't advocated by any agency. This is a black & white issue. These limits are in addition to CNS% (clock) limits and are not superseded or replaced by them. Both apply. The singular exception to this is the TDI 'Narcosis Management' course (deep air, bounce dives) - and that course has received considerable debate, and not a little scorn, from the tech community. Nonetheless, TDI still maintain a categorical position that 1.6 (deco) is the maximum recommended pO2 limit. The general trend over the years is that max pO2 has reduced. It would not be unsurprising if this continued (at least, until the helium runs out).

3) Technical divers aren't trained to 'bail out' on shorter deco profiles for a given bottom time. You decide your algorithm parameters, you shape your curve and you stick with it. A technical diver may carry tables to permit a quicker exit from the water, but these are based upon shorter bottom times (aborting the dive). This principle echos the most basic advice given to divers - plan your dive and dive your plan. It's possible to set a computer/software to permit hyper-aggressive deco. Yes, the computer/software will say you can do it. No, it doesn't mean it is safe at all. Yes, it is entirely possible to program a computer like the Petrel to bend you, guaranteed.

4) The issue of oxygen toxicity is well addressed in technical diving training by technical diving agencies. Protocols and recommendations exist to mitigate these risks under virtually every potential scenario. This is mainstream, basic, technical diving application - not some 'black art'. There is no mystery to it. There is no need for experimentation or speculation. As with DCI, there are very few 'undeserved' oxtox hits. When there are fatalities, a trigger factor is normally identified. Those trigger factors are generally issues that stem from some failure to effectively apply common oxtox-related recommendations, principles or protocols.
 
The singular exception to this is the [-]TDI[/-] PSAI 'Narcosis Management' course (deep air, bounce dives) - and that course has received considerable debate, and not a little scorn, from the tech community. Nonetheless, [-]TDI[/-] PSAI still maintain a [-]categorical[/-] general position that 1.6 (deco) is the maximum recommended pO2 limit except when they don't.

Minor quibble.
 
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