Cold water Q's
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LowDrag
Contributor
I don't get where you are coming from. Did I miss something or what? I don't read anything in this statement that says there was no training.
One thing to keep in mind is this quote from the bottom of the page:
"You are in the Basic Scuba Discussions Forum:
This forum has special rules. This forum is intended to be a very friendly, "flame free zone" where divers of any skill level may ask questions about basic scuba topics without fear of being accosted. Please show respect and courtesy at all times. Remember that the inquirer is looking for answers that they can understand. This is a learning zone and consequently, any off-topic or overly harsh responses will be removed.
"
let me put it another way ...if you take a decent dry suit course the instructor SHOULD give you all the pros and cons of each type of suit , you then should get a pool exsperience that allows you to get comfortable with the emerg proceedures and equipment failures, then with all that infomation you should be able to make adecision ................i was adressing the "buy it and jump right in " mentallity............
If you want to dive cold water... then I recommend against buying an "entry level" (i.e., cheap) dry suit.
Get the best dry suit that you can afford.
It's really useful to actually see some the different brands in person. Compare the quality and feel. Look at the finishing details.
I think DUI has the best dry suits and I've never had problems with mine in 5 years. I will go with Zip Seals next time, because changing out old wrist and neck gaskets is a P.I.T.A.
White's was a close second, although White's attention to detail is not as good as DUI.
I am not a big fan of Dive Rite in general, but I was also impressed with Dive Rite dry suits.
I must admit that I have never seen a Santi, so I can't make any comparisons to that brand. Santini is getting excellent reviews.
Good luck in your quest.
Get the best dry suit that you can afford.
It's really useful to actually see some the different brands in person. Compare the quality and feel. Look at the finishing details.
I think DUI has the best dry suits and I've never had problems with mine in 5 years. I will go with Zip Seals next time, because changing out old wrist and neck gaskets is a P.I.T.A.
White's was a close second, although White's attention to detail is not as good as DUI.
I am not a big fan of Dive Rite in general, but I was also impressed with Dive Rite dry suits.
I must admit that I have never seen a Santi, so I can't make any comparisons to that brand. Santini is getting excellent reviews.
Good luck in your quest.
LowDrag
Contributor
I know that a lot of people like the Fusion, but I know 4 people that have/had the Fusion, one replaced his due a constant irritating leak in the crotch seam, the suit was returned 4 times under warranty, got it back, told it was fixed, and same problem when he dove it. He now dives DUI. The other 3 have told me they too will be selling their Fusions and replacing with DUI, as soon as they sell their old suits . I dove a Bare Trilam HD Pro for my first suit, loved it, other than not realizing suspenders were an option, not a problem diving, but an issue on the post dive sprint to the toilet facilities. I do love my DUI CLX450 comfortable, tough, and custom fit. I have friends with the Scubapro, and they really like it, though they don't always like the neoprene seals.
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I'm one of those people who didn't like the Whte's Fusion. I really wanted to, since I got a smoking deal on it ... but try as I might I couldn't make myself like that suit. First off, they're harder getting into and out of than other suits ... particularly for people like me who are not an "off the rack" body shape. To put it more bluntly, this suit ain't made for fat people ... and not just because of the doffing/donning issue, but because once you're in it, well ... they show off your body quite nicely. I once made the mistake of wearing this suit for a TV show on scuba diving, and I really shouldn't have. Then there was the pockets ... mine functioned nicely in the water, but on surface interval they somehow always ended up down around my ankles ... I had the tech skin and it just wasn't enough support to keep the pockets from sagging due to the weight of the contents. Oh sure, there's "fixes" for that, if you want to DIY your own suit and glue velcro patches to the two layers ... but that seems kind of a hokey way to do things. There were a few other things I didn't care for with the suit, but the bottom line is I eventually sold it and went with a more basic trilam.
I've owned a succession of trilam suits over the years.
Started with a Diving Concepts, who makes a great suit but their customer service leaves a lot to be desired. I loved that suit, and dived it till it was too worn out to fix anymore. But I still, to this day, avoid Diving Concepts for drysuit repairs ... they just never got their customer service act together.
Went from that to a Northern Diver ... HUGE mistake ... took four months to get a custom suit from them, and the suit they sent me was made for someone with a completely different body from mine ... then it took them three more months to make it right. I never liked that suit, and sold it for a huge loss. They may have gotten better since then (2004), but I'll never give myself an opportunity to find out.
Went with DUI ... had two different suits, a CLX450 for teaching and a TLS350 for fun diving. Thought the Zip seals would be a good idea, but they do have some drawbacks ... particularly for wrist seals if you want to use standard dry gloves rather than the zip gloves. Most folks I know who go this route opt for Zip seals on the neck only. My only complaint about DUI was that my TLS350 tended to spring leaks a lot ... not that I minded, I'd just find them, fix them, and keep diving ... that suit fit me like a favorite pair of jeans and I absolutely loved it. The CLX450 was tough as nails, but I never really felt as comfortable in it, so eventually I replaced it with ...
A White's Fusion ... they seemed all the rage, and as I said earlier, I got a great deal on one. So I gave it a try ... in fact, I gave it a lot of tries. I'm fortunate to live not too far from the White's factory, and to their credit these guys went far out of their way to make me happy ... allowing me to deliver the suit directly to the factory to add pockets and to replace the socks with booties ... even giving me a VIP tour of the factory while I was there. Their customer service is tops ... I just couldn't make myself love this suit no matter how much I wanted to. I eventually sold it to someone here on ScubaBoard ... last I heard, he's still diving it and loves it.
From there I went with a Santi eSpace. Very nice suit ... rugged and comfortable. I still own it, although it's now my backup suit. These aren't cheap, but they're a suit I'd recommend for someone who dives a lot and uses their suit hard. The only drawback to Santi is that if you have to send the suit back to them for any reason, it's going to Poland.
My most recent suit is a Bare Tech Dry XCS2 ... a pretty new design. It's a "lightweight" compressed neoprene suit that's very stretchy. I've only had it for about a month, and really like this suit a lot. It's easy to don and doff, very comfortable, warm ... I was able to switch to a pretty lightweight undergarment ... and has that new TiZip drysuit zipper. My only complaint about this suit was that ... like all of my suits it was custom ... when it arrived it was too long in the torso. But Bare's in the process of making me a new one, so I've now "tested" their customer service, and they've so far passed the test. Time will tell about durability, but so far I think this may end up being my new all-time favorite suit.
So none of that really helps anyone who's looking for someone to recommend a drysuit, except to say that following someone else's recommendation is really a hit or miss process, because even if "everybody else" likes a particular type of suit, you may not for your own reasons. Different suits have different advantages and drawbacks. Neoprene suits are warm and comfortable, but they are also heavy (don't travel well due to luggage weight) and tend to take a long time to dry out. Trilam suits are more travel friendly, but tend to require more undergarment for warmth ... and they have to be cut to allow freedom of motion, which means more wrinkles to push through the water. Customer service matters. I've had great luck with some companies (DUI, Whites and Bare) ... poor luck with others (Diving Concepts and Northern Diver) ... and the one time I had to send my Santi suit back they did a great job, but Poland is far from here. And none of these are what I'd call "starter" suits ... I agree with the person above who said buy the best suit you can afford.
About drysuit training ... I'm gonna disagree somewhat with the person who said only an idiot would dive a drysuit without taking a class. If that's the case, I'm an idiot, because although I teach drysuit classes I never took one. When I got my first drysuit, I had a mentor take me diving, show me the standard recovery exercise and drill me on connecting and disconnecting my drysuit hose underwater ... and did a lot of diving. So although I have issued several drysuit c-cards, I don't own one. Nor do you need to unless you're planning to rent a drysuit someday. When my own students ask me about drysuit training, my first question is do you want a c-card? If the answer is yes, we do a standard drysuit class. If no, then we include drysuit training into another workshop or specialty class in such a way that it saves them some money and more specifically targets skills that they want to learn. What you need to know about a drysuit is how to purchase one that fits properly, and how to take care of it once you own it. For the former, I'll refer potential buyers to a LDS I can trust to tell them about the pros and cons of various models and assure that a purchased suit will fit them properly. For the latter, I can show them how to maintain a drysuit in about 10 minutes ... and if you have a bit more time, how to leak test and do basic repairs. It's not rocket surgery. For the safety drills, I can demonstrate and have you practice them on a dive ... either as part of another class or just going out diving and doing them in the shallows at the beginning of the dive. Bottom line is I'll happily sell you a class if you need one, but not everybody does.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
I've owned a succession of trilam suits over the years.
Started with a Diving Concepts, who makes a great suit but their customer service leaves a lot to be desired. I loved that suit, and dived it till it was too worn out to fix anymore. But I still, to this day, avoid Diving Concepts for drysuit repairs ... they just never got their customer service act together.
Went from that to a Northern Diver ... HUGE mistake ... took four months to get a custom suit from them, and the suit they sent me was made for someone with a completely different body from mine ... then it took them three more months to make it right. I never liked that suit, and sold it for a huge loss. They may have gotten better since then (2004), but I'll never give myself an opportunity to find out.
Went with DUI ... had two different suits, a CLX450 for teaching and a TLS350 for fun diving. Thought the Zip seals would be a good idea, but they do have some drawbacks ... particularly for wrist seals if you want to use standard dry gloves rather than the zip gloves. Most folks I know who go this route opt for Zip seals on the neck only. My only complaint about DUI was that my TLS350 tended to spring leaks a lot ... not that I minded, I'd just find them, fix them, and keep diving ... that suit fit me like a favorite pair of jeans and I absolutely loved it. The CLX450 was tough as nails, but I never really felt as comfortable in it, so eventually I replaced it with ...
A White's Fusion ... they seemed all the rage, and as I said earlier, I got a great deal on one. So I gave it a try ... in fact, I gave it a lot of tries. I'm fortunate to live not too far from the White's factory, and to their credit these guys went far out of their way to make me happy ... allowing me to deliver the suit directly to the factory to add pockets and to replace the socks with booties ... even giving me a VIP tour of the factory while I was there. Their customer service is tops ... I just couldn't make myself love this suit no matter how much I wanted to. I eventually sold it to someone here on ScubaBoard ... last I heard, he's still diving it and loves it.
From there I went with a Santi eSpace. Very nice suit ... rugged and comfortable. I still own it, although it's now my backup suit. These aren't cheap, but they're a suit I'd recommend for someone who dives a lot and uses their suit hard. The only drawback to Santi is that if you have to send the suit back to them for any reason, it's going to Poland.
My most recent suit is a Bare Tech Dry XCS2 ... a pretty new design. It's a "lightweight" compressed neoprene suit that's very stretchy. I've only had it for about a month, and really like this suit a lot. It's easy to don and doff, very comfortable, warm ... I was able to switch to a pretty lightweight undergarment ... and has that new TiZip drysuit zipper. My only complaint about this suit was that ... like all of my suits it was custom ... when it arrived it was too long in the torso. But Bare's in the process of making me a new one, so I've now "tested" their customer service, and they've so far passed the test. Time will tell about durability, but so far I think this may end up being my new all-time favorite suit.
So none of that really helps anyone who's looking for someone to recommend a drysuit, except to say that following someone else's recommendation is really a hit or miss process, because even if "everybody else" likes a particular type of suit, you may not for your own reasons. Different suits have different advantages and drawbacks. Neoprene suits are warm and comfortable, but they are also heavy (don't travel well due to luggage weight) and tend to take a long time to dry out. Trilam suits are more travel friendly, but tend to require more undergarment for warmth ... and they have to be cut to allow freedom of motion, which means more wrinkles to push through the water. Customer service matters. I've had great luck with some companies (DUI, Whites and Bare) ... poor luck with others (Diving Concepts and Northern Diver) ... and the one time I had to send my Santi suit back they did a great job, but Poland is far from here. And none of these are what I'd call "starter" suits ... I agree with the person above who said buy the best suit you can afford.
About drysuit training ... I'm gonna disagree somewhat with the person who said only an idiot would dive a drysuit without taking a class. If that's the case, I'm an idiot, because although I teach drysuit classes I never took one. When I got my first drysuit, I had a mentor take me diving, show me the standard recovery exercise and drill me on connecting and disconnecting my drysuit hose underwater ... and did a lot of diving. So although I have issued several drysuit c-cards, I don't own one. Nor do you need to unless you're planning to rent a drysuit someday. When my own students ask me about drysuit training, my first question is do you want a c-card? If the answer is yes, we do a standard drysuit class. If no, then we include drysuit training into another workshop or specialty class in such a way that it saves them some money and more specifically targets skills that they want to learn. What you need to know about a drysuit is how to purchase one that fits properly, and how to take care of it once you own it. For the former, I'll refer potential buyers to a LDS I can trust to tell them about the pros and cons of various models and assure that a purchased suit will fit them properly. For the latter, I can show them how to maintain a drysuit in about 10 minutes ... and if you have a bit more time, how to leak test and do basic repairs. It's not rocket surgery. For the safety drills, I can demonstrate and have you practice them on a dive ... either as part of another class or just going out diving and doing them in the shallows at the beginning of the dive. Bottom line is I'll happily sell you a class if you need one, but not everybody does.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
bob you make all the right points the fusion is NO technical suit ...it was designed (i actually talked to the drsighner) to fit the widest amount of sizes per suit (great for stores and rental), i owned 2 i have over 8 drysuits right now in dry suit its always fit .i found in 1 of the whites suits i owned the opv always was to far to the back .i couldnt wear it in my front mounted counter lung rebreather . as i tried to vent the valve manualy it vented the counter lung and wasted gas .over all it might seem like a good choice for some people .but take a PROPER dry suit course you will see its problems . I find if a store sells somthing it s the greatest and a bunch of people (usally misimformed) flock to own .The fusion is not a bad suit its just not the best suit out there .
---------- Post added May 15th, 2012 at 11:34 AM ----------
bob what you describe as not a course , is a course you learned safety proceedures you taught mantainace , pros cons etc what im talking about is the guy who just goes off and trys to learn it on their own (i too never took a proper course ....there wasnt one ) but now we have them , a dry suit is a GREAT piece of kit ..but it can kill you ......a guy in my old club bought a dry suit went diving thought he figured it out on his own .....he ended up doing an uncontrolled ascent then had to be on oxygen going across the border back into canada to go to the hospital (dont ask me why he didnt go to the hospital in ny state , unless he didnt want to pay for medical attention, might show alittle how this guy thinks ) i belive you should know all you can about a new piece of dive gear, before it gets wet ....remember knowlege is power learn ALL YOU CAN is my mantra
No?
Somehow, I've been pretty successful using mine for both technical and cave diving for the last four years . . .
Bob you struck a few chords I want to build on.
I also began diving with a mentor who happened to be fairly new to diving. Fortunately we had each studied lots of text about it so we had some idea what we needed to sort out. Within 10 dives I had my configuration dialed in and felt I was on par with diving wet. When my wife went dry we worked cert classes intro the deal and I'm now certified in case I have the need to rent a suit. The experience was anticlimactic. I had mentored her for a few dives prior to the class and she pretty much had it down going in. It's not rocket science. A little screen/book time, some mentoring and conservative early dives is all that IMO most NEED.
Taking the class (SSI) after taking delivery of the suits (my second & her first) made one thing crystal clear. Most of the book is about selling you on why to dive dry and how to buy a drysuit. Having a prior suit under my belt and being a ScubaBoard junkie I don't think I learned a thing. My point being that the class has much it's real value BEFORE you plunk your cash down.
Pete
I also began diving with a mentor who happened to be fairly new to diving. Fortunately we had each studied lots of text about it so we had some idea what we needed to sort out. Within 10 dives I had my configuration dialed in and felt I was on par with diving wet. When my wife went dry we worked cert classes intro the deal and I'm now certified in case I have the need to rent a suit. The experience was anticlimactic. I had mentored her for a few dives prior to the class and she pretty much had it down going in. It's not rocket science. A little screen/book time, some mentoring and conservative early dives is all that IMO most NEED.
Taking the class (SSI) after taking delivery of the suits (my second & her first) made one thing crystal clear. Most of the book is about selling you on why to dive dry and how to buy a drysuit. Having a prior suit under my belt and being a ScubaBoard junkie I don't think I learned a thing. My point being that the class has much it's real value BEFORE you plunk your cash down.
Pete
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