Compact camera upgrade for UW video and wide angle: G16, RX100 M2 or M3 or GoPro...?

[afieldofblue]

Hello all,

I've been reading up here and on different forums, and still can't quite make up my mind on what to get for my massive camera upgrade, massive as in jumping from a Panasonic Lumix TZ10 (ZS7 in the US) to a more recent compact model.

I've been diving mostly in Indonesia, and next trip is my 3rd to Central Raja Ampat. I'm not into UW macro that much, I've shot pigmy seahorses and ornate ghostpipefish but clearly found out what really turns me on now is UW video, and wide angle photography.
I love schools of fish, big and small, and could stay hours with a school of jacks or fusiliers, and also love watching the footage afterwards.

With this in mind, I've been looking into compact camera options, and still can't make a choice. It's all very confusing.
I got some pretty good results with the TZ10, which has surprinsingly good white balance for a model this old, compared to some very blue/green unprocessed footage I've seen with more recent and much more advanced compacts. But overall image quality is clearly not the same.


So far, reading up, I've narrowed it down to:

Canon G16:
I've got a G12 (but no housing, and they still sell at $1000 or so and the canon/ meikon tend to leak, so gave up on that, never used it underwater)- I love this series, and getting a G16 with a fantasea housing was my initial choice, but apparently it's not ideal for UW video, more for macro. Or is it? Is the RX 100 series much better for UW video and wide angle photography?

Sony RX 100 mark II or III: they seem great, not sure which is better for video and UW wide angle, and the mark II's price tag is way more attractive thant the III's. The IV is too expensive for me.

Others options i've been considering:

Sony G7X: haven't read much on the subject. Not sure it's ideal for UW video, and not sure if many housings are available? Apparently it's presented as a competitor to the RX 100 M3.

GoPro: not really what I'd been looking for, but some people have recommended it (recent models) for video. Others have told me to forget it. Not really convinced, but the price is attractive as well.

And lastly: I've found a Patima housing for the G12, at 400 euros... Does the G12 stand a chance for underwater video?

I'm a little lost, as you can see. It's all very confusing for me, new models here and there, and not so much info on UW video and white balance. Some of the footage I've seen is nice and crisp, but the colors are really not that great and would need serious post-production.

I would like to get good looking colors in natural lighting, say filming a school of jacks at 15-20 meters max, without getting all strobed up (which is I'm getting with the TZ10 and a little white balance tweaking).
I'd also love to add a fisheye wet lense to the case in the near future (but won't be able for this coming trip).
Price, especially available housing price, also comes into play, as I don't intend to spend $1000 on a housing, which also adds to my confusion. Maybe I'm just getting old, but things are really going fast, aren't they...

thanks for your help

ben

 

[rob1967]

Your best budget option would of course be the G12, since you already have the camera. It shoots "only" 720p, and the AF in video not as as advanced as the newer cameras. So I would say go for the G16, as there have been significant advances in video/imaging since the G12. Also, the camera body is a relatively small price compared to the housing. I think the G7x would be a bit better for stills, but for video, I think the G16 and G7x would be about the same. People debate if maybe the Sony RX100 MII or III maybe is better for video, but the differences are very minor IMHO. Plus Canon has better inherent macro and better/smarter white balancing (very important for underwater video), plus you already know and like Canon, so just get the G16.

G16, G7X and Sony RX100 MII or III all shoot 1080p, which is good enough for most people. RX100 MIV has 4k video, but that is out of your price range, so stick with 1080p, at least you won't have to worry about your computer blowing up when you are trying to do video editing! ;-)

p.s., don't get GoPro! Not very good for underwater IMHO!

 

[Interceptor121]

Get a Sony RX100 Mark II. The canon G7X battery life is ridiculous and you need a housing with a port system. The G16 is an outdated model and has no wide angle options for video. If macro was your priority this was a possible choice but for wide angle the way forward is the sony

 

[afieldofblue]

Thanks for both of your answers, both very interesting.

I think I'll rule out buying a case for the G12 (too old), the G7 and the Go Pro.

Tough choice, I guess I'll have to choose between the RX100 M2 (Recsea housing) and the G16 (Fantasea housing), since the RX100 M3 doesn't seem that much of an improvement when it comes to video.

I've been looking at comparative videos of underwater footage for these two cameras, and while I'm blown away but the overall clarity of the footage, I really find the color balance a little odd on both.
Lots of day-glo like colors, fluorescent greens and yellow...
I hope there's a way to get a more natural balance..

This is the kind of footage I'm talking about for instance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWdnyZHyqhA (the turtle at 0:15 is very strange) or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDPe1q5JBNc

I hope both cameras can do a little better than this in terms of color balance.
The albeit much lower quality footage I was getting on the TZ10 and its minimal white balance settings seems sometimes almost more balanced colorwise:

This is in the shallows in Bunaken for instance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os78FfdIxHQ

And this shaky rather blue footage of trevallies hunting fusiliers in the current is filmed at roughly 20 meters in Raja4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMttY7u9B-I

Both of these are in natural light and unprocessed clips on the TZ10.
Image quality/clarity is really uncomparable though, so that would be a much welcome upgrade...

 

[rob1967]

I used to shoot a Canon S100 (and still have it actually), and was amazed how good it was for figuring out white balance automatically for video underwater. With my previous camera (SeaLife) I always had to do a manual white balance underwater to get any hope of getting natural colours. So Canon has some smart algorithm to figure out white balance that works even underwater. Although I shoot primarily stills, here is a sample of video using the Canon S100 and only a small Sola 800 focus light. https://youtu.be/Ntt7UKBwmHs
As you can see, the colours are accurate on the octopus even though I am using only a single relatively small video light.

Regarding the videos you mentioned, the turtle shot on the first looks like he is using ambient light only, no video light, and probably too deep to get any hope of natural colours. So I wouldn't say it is a good representation of what the camera can do. I never had video with colours that looked that bad, but I would always use at least my focus light. To get natural colours with wide-angle, you have to be fairly shallow, say less than 10 m or so.

 

[Interceptor121]

Check my last video on the RX100 Mark II [youtubehq]-zhv3XfhE9E[/youtubehq] [youtubehq]Oac1AQ2j5kg[/youtubehq]

 

[afieldofblue]

Thanks again.

I was about to comment on Interceptor121's color balance in some parts of the video but then stumbled on this article which covers the question in details: Sony RX100 White Balance Woes | Interceptor121 Underwater Photo & Video Blog I understand what's happening with video white balance better now.

But this adds another layer of complexity. As much as I love the quality of the images, but I'm not a great fan of the color balance on a lot of ambient light video footage I've seen, whether on the RX100 II, G16 or GoPro.

Go Pros are not very good underwater, but any thoughts on the GoPro Hero4 Black (what a name...)? Or maybe the Intova Edge X?

I'm thinking that if I'm going to get such color balances anyway from recent compacts in the conditions I will be using them in (ie without artificial light for the time being), and given the size and price of a gopro/intova, I might as well save quite a lot of money and stick one of these newer models on top of my current housing and film from that when I need to...

 

[Interceptor121]

My videos are shot with filter and auto white balance. There is no point bothering with custom white balance on the sony RX100 series

 

[afieldofblue]

Ok, reviving a cold one here, but I'm still at the same point.

I've played around with the Lumix TZ10 (ZS7), with a good red filter, and I really happy with the colors I'm getting in the tropics - I've had the chance to compare them to the footage of some shooting the same dives with a go pro hero silver 4, and I find actually prefer the color balance I'm getting with this archaic compact camera....

The profile picture I'm using now is grabbed from this friend's go pro silver 4 for instance, and even though you can edit it in post, it's still a little weird in my opinion - here's some of her footage

I also grabbed some files off her and tried to tweak them in after effects, but still couldn't get something I like, I'm afraid...


The following TZ10 clips, best watched in HD, are from Central Raja Ampat last February - in exactly the same conditions, and actually on quite a few of the same dives as above.

They're shot in natural light, at 25 m max (usually 15 to 20 m), with a UR red filter, and not edited in post for color - Result is very close to what I saw with my own eyes, and I really like this. Image quality, however is uncomprable, much more crisp on the Go Pro or recent compacts







That said, I really really really like the definition people are gettting with more recent cameras like the go-pro, so I'm a little torn.

I'm on the verge of buying a go pro to stick on top of my current TZ10 housing- But is it really worth it? Should I go for image quality or color?

I'm still looking for convincing Go-Pro UW / or compact footage shot in natural light with a similar, natural color balance (not monochrome blue or green hues and with weird yellow / green day-glo colors), ie similar to the one I'm getting in the clips above....
Given the price, if I could be sure there was a way to get nice colors on dive vids, I'd buy a go pro straight away for our next trip in July. Or save up for another compact -

But at the moment the color balance I've seen on Go-Pro or more recent compacts is really putting me off -
I really don't understand how the color balance on a lumix compact from 2009 can be better then on more recent cameras - Maybe it's due to the boost in image quality, or had panasonic struck gold with the TZ series?

Looking at a lot of footage recently, it seems like what I like color-wise in natural lighting (I want a compact setup, not massive strobes) is usally shot on bigger cameras such as the Lumix GH4 or Canon 5D... But the price tag is in another galaxy.

 

[afieldofblue]

I might have found something - I've been looking at UW clips shot on a DMC-LX 100 and the white balance/ colors seem much nicer to me than what I've seen so far on recent compacts or the go pro. I'll look into that a little bit more...
Hum, only 2 housings to choose from...