Comparing Doppler's class and GUE's DIRf class...

[eagleray2003]

"The Tick"

You are really quite funny, we all remember that you are associated with a shop that has had a couple of fatalities one just recently and here you are cutting down other courses!
The fact that your shop is holding a DIRF Course is really pretty funny, some of us don't forget.

 

[DS1]

The Tick once bubbled...

On the other had I would assume that it cost less as well and you know what they say..you get what you pay for.

its the instructor that make the course good or not...i dont care if its GUE, PADI, TDI, YMCA but from the two comments from the GUE instructors in this post I AM GUARANTEED to keep taking my tech courses with doopler

 

[pufferfish]

eagleray2003 once bubbled...
"The Tick"

You are really quite funny, we all remember that you are associated with a shop that has had a couple of fatalities one just recently and here you are cutting down other courses!
The fact that your shop is holding a DIRF Course is really pretty funny, some of us don't forget.

And he accused me of owning an Ottawa dive shop! He also was loath to even consider the fact there may be a better way to ensure diver air safety by looking into what an accredited air analysis represented in relation to the current poor standard. And who is talking about raising the bar here?

Not much credibilty in my books and those in the command and control structure who represent the 'product' he seems to be pushing may want to reconsider the ambassador they have chosen to speak for them.

It seems to me competition is a very good idea with regards to a skills course such that the consumer has several course formats and philosophies from which to choose from.

 

[Kevin R]

You are really quite funny, we all remember that you are associated with a shop that has had a couple of fatalities one just recently and here you are cutting down other courses!

Actually Mr. "eagleray", I'm the one associated with Kanata Diving Supply and the recent tragedy has nothing to do with the launch of the DIR-F course at Kanata. The fact that you even brought this up shows that you probably have an ax of some sort to grind. One thing you may have noted about my posts is that I log on and sign off with my full name. If you aren't willing to put your name on the bottom, don't put it on the board.

For those of you who do not know me, I am one of the equipment technicians and a divemaster at KDS. I am also a dedicated DIR diver who has recently graduated from the Tech II course under Andrew Georgitsis, GUE's training director and I dive and train with the teams at Northern Tech Diver.

I share Dan's interest in improving the quality of divers and training overall and this is the reason we are running this course. I just wish I could devote the time and effort he does to actually producing the quality divers I am fortunate enough to team up with when I dive in Kingston with GLUE.

This course has been in the production for the last two years, ever since we discussed it on the return trip from my Cave I course. It has nothing to do with any accident. Obviously since I work for Kanata, I'm not going to plan a course to run out of Sharkeys (no offence meant here Mike). Another point the shortsighted out there may have missed is that most of the other shops in Ottawa have already chosen to affiliate themselves with one of the mainstream technical agencies. It's easier to develop quality divers from specimens who are not already tainted by the propoganda and poor quality skills these agencies are pushing.

At the end of the day, I do agree that it is the instructor that makes the difference in any training situation. I learned this fisthand in the military and the lesson repeats itself often in the dive community. Fortunately, GUE is able to weed out those without the dedication or skill to instruct properly through the most rigerous set of skill requirements that the dive industry has yet seen. By keeping their instructor cadre small (37 worldwide), they are able to control what is taught and make sure everyone is teaching the real DIR, not some close enough version.

I'd encourage all divers to improve their skill set, however, as "The Tick" mentioned, you get what you pay for.

If you boys want to flame me for this, line up, but make sure you're willing to put your name on it so we can all play on the same field, otherwise don't waste my time.

Kevin Ripley

 

[Doppler]

pufferfish once bubbled...

I just hope in that gas management curriculum there is a small section devoted to gas quality, accredited labs, and air certificates

Well now... that's an interesting reminder. I'll have to dig out some of the material you've been giving us access to and see what I can do to promote that aspect of gas prudence.



Take care PF

 

[Dan MacKay]

eagleray2003 once bubbled...
"The Tick"

You are really quite funny, we all remember that you are associated with a shop that has had a couple of fatalities one just recently and here you are cutting down other courses!
The fact that your shop is holding a DIRF Course is really pretty funny, some of us don't forget.

Humm...Wrong on so many accounts but I will defend to the death your right to be wrong.

If you note in my posting that I actually praised Doppler for taking this step. I was just trying to raise the point that GUE has left the cirriculum there for all to see. Some of the top divers in the world have spend five years refining this course so I truly fail to see how it can be improved on. Even though the content may be similar the execution and presentation would not be the same. Not seeing the course content nor how it was presented can leave me with no opinion as to Doppler's course other than from what he has come forth with. From that I sumise (and from the name of course) I logically assumed that it was positioned to be a Fundamentals like course. If you wish to take a Fundamentals the do so from those who developed it otherwise be aware that you are not getting the straight goods. I am sick and tired of hearing about folks who are DIR this and DIR that and don't know whether their butts are punched or bored as far as GUE and DIR go.

Seeing as how you obviously know who I am and who I work for and what color socks that I wear I hope indeed that you do not forget. I accept all apologies proffered publicly of course.

That being said if you have anything of a constructive nature to say in reference to the content of my posting rather than a totally misguided personal attack I would like to hear it. If not well I guess we can slip you into the rule 7 category.

Have a pleasant day.

 

[Dan MacKay]

pufferfish once bubbled...


And he accused me of owning an Ottawa dive shop! He also was loath to even consider the fact there may be a better way to ensure diver air safety by looking into what an accredited air analysis represented in relation to the current poor standard. And who is talking about raising the bar here?

Not much credibilty in my books and those in the command and control structure who represent the 'product' he seems to be pushing may want to reconsider the ambassador they have chosen to speak for them.

It seems to me competition is a very good idea with regards to a skills course such that the consumer has several course formats and philosophies from which to choose from.

Ahh the Puffer is back. You fail to mention that at least I apologised both publically and privately to you over my erroneous supposition about who you were. I had you confused with Bubbleboy who has long since disappeared since his cover and motivation was blown.

And by the by who said that those who are in control have anything to do with me being chosen as an ambassador to speak for them? Who chose you do be the ambassador of all things breathable and to condem all shops in the world for having bad air. My call to you to provide one ligitimate case of a diver injury due to "bad air" was ignored or fluffed over as well.

Stick to the air battle Puffer as it seems as if you have some expertise in that arena. I do admit that testing is a good thing and proper testing essential. You idea of proper and mine vary just slightly and I thought that we had agreed to disagree on that. It does suprise me that you toss in your lot with the likes of Eagle and lower yourself to personal insults. If you have not taken either course you have no basis for comparison.

I merely spoke my opinion as allowed in this forum. At least I have the luxury to have a few GUE courses under my belt as well as more than a few PADI, PDIC, TDI, IANTD and SSI courses as well.

Oh I get it...only your opinion counts and if someone else has a different opinion then you folks can substitute a personal attack and hope it might be construed as a meaningful transfer of information..finally I get it. Silly me. Hmm...Kevin is there a rule 8?

 

[Dan MacKay]

DS1 once bubbled...




its the instructor that make the course good or not...i dont care if its GUE, PADI, TDI, YMCA but from the two comments from the GUE instructors in this post I AM GUARANTEED to keep taking my tech courses with doopler

Those who know me know that I do not post very often in these forums only due to the fact that no matter what one says it is often interpreted by the reader in the manner in which the reader wishes to interpret it. So if there is a an anti-GUE bias no matter what is said will not be taken in the manner in which it was meant.

I would just like to ask DS1 about the two comments made by the GUE instructors in this forum. This comes as a surprise to me. As far as I know I am the only GUE instructor in Ontario or Canada for that matter and this is the first comment that I have made in this thread. Just curios as to who they are DS1 and perhaps you could enlighten me?

As for Doppler's course I (and I have to agree with the Tick) applaud his efforts. I know Doppler and while we are not bosom buddies we have shared some thoughts over coffee and the phone upon occasion. As well as I have not seen the content of his course or how it was presented then I really do not have any opinion other than if I ever have the opportunity I am sure that Doppler would have no quams in letting me audit his course and then I might have an opinion.

What does raise a question in my mind though is what is it that GUE has done that makes a lot of you folks so defensive specially since those who are the most voiciferous have yet to take a GUE course? DS1 if we are so bad why is it that every other Techincal agency (and recreational for that matter) is scrambling to come up with a Fundamentals like offering?

Doppler keep up the good work at least one TDI instructor in the world is trying to make a difference.

One last note is one to echo something Kevin saids. You will note that those of use who think our opinion is worth putting down in digital ink also stand by that opinion with our real names. Doppler, Kevin Ripley, Tom Rutledge and I do it to name a few. It is something the rest of you should consider as it would lend more credence to your postings.

Safe dives,

Dan

 

[DS1]

hey dont get me wrong i believe in the GUE DIRF even more now than before i started the deco course but i dont belive in the comments you guys are posting about other courses, agency, people





THANKS

 

[pufferfish]

The Tick once bubbled...

This is a course that is now being often imitated but never duplicated because the rip off artists that are trying to cash in on the Fundamentals or Fundamentals like course lack the skill, tools and experience to execute and deliver the training.

All that being said I am not taking a shot at Doppler here because I do not know him.

On the other had I would assume that it cost less as well and you know what they say..you get what you pay for.

What 'ticked' me off a lot about your post was that it dripped with innuendo about the quality of another instructor's course that neither you nor I have taken and therefore should not comment on. Using terms like rip off artists, cash in, and you get what you pay for certainly appears as some pretty big shots across the bow of a boat you don't even know.

If my post above was interpreted as a personal attack then I apologize. As for the air testing issue I am glad to hear you and James Pate have decided that OUC testing is not worth the paper it is written on. Welcome to the A team where A stands for accredited.

Dan it is good to finally have the 'commander' here listening. I and a few others have come to realize we could all use some skill upgrading and probably learn a few new ones. In other words as dive consumers we will shop around and choose a course and instructor to our liking. Everytime though that I and my dive buddy say lets go take that Fundamentals course one of your previous students posts here and scares us off. I guess it is the 'attitude' I see in so many of the graduates' posts that irritates and scares away potential customers for what I am sure is a great course. I value open mindedness, curiosity, thinking outside the box, and being able to change one's ways when a better alternative is presented and yet I hear bravado, my way or the highway, a lack of humility, and a lack of tolerance for others diver's abilities.

Some of it I chock up to young bold 'pilots' but I was certified by Lloyd Shales (he should be an honorary member of GLUE) many years ago and can do without the my d--k is bigger than yours attitude in so many of those posts above that unfortunately have the acronym GUE associated with them. I don't think people get their backs up about the laudable GUE message and goals, but by the attitude that message is delivered with at least here on the OFWF board. In other words if you want to market your Fundamentals course to a larger audience you will have to attempt to influence what your students do say in public. They are all ambassadors for the GUE program. I was ready to take a Fundamentals course and after this and a few other other incidents I find myself reconsidering again is this really the best agency from which to take a skills course.

As for using our actual name to sign off only when I can see JimmyB and TomR registered on the board at the same time