Computer VS. Tables

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MichigandiverJon

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Location
Michigan, United States
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I have a basic question: My computer is a Suunto Cobra. At the end of my dives I still like to go through the SSI dive tables to log my dives to keep fresh on the use of the tables as well. When doing repetitive dives, especially when doing three or more I am frequently "running out" of bottom time according to the tables when I use them conservatively as you're supposed to while my computer still says I have bottom time left.
What is the better way then, to log dives when you're trying to use and stay within the letter designations? To "fudge" the tables and round down on depth and time? Or use the time my computer gives me and extrapolate from that, my new repetitive letter? Is there a better/different way to log repetitive dives?
 
You are diving your computer. So just log what you did. Depth, time, SI, etc. The log is for your personal use and once in a while needed for a class. It should be what you actually did.
 
There really is no way to compare the two, the computer is real time the tables require a set of rules to be followed and is in increments. Nice to know tables but use one or the other. I bought the Orca Edge when it first came out back in the mid 80's. I had been diving tables for 20 years before that. It took some time and a bit of apprehension before I would fully trust it but eventually it proved to me it was a better way to dive. I can still work the tables but I don't try to apply it to my computer dives.
 
Tables are designed for square profile dives, not multilevel dives which I suspect you actually do.

These days my only square profile dives are on a couple of wrecks that I regularly dive, but even then a wreck can be multilevel dive too depending on depth.

When I bought my first computer (Suunto Companion) back in the 90s and I was also recording my dives using a PADI Wheel. Eventually I trusted the computer but having knowledge of maximum NDL times for certain depths is very useful for dive planning, although this can be checked on most if not all computers.
 
I agree--log what you did. If you use the computer for a true multi-level dive and want to use tables to put pressure groups into your log you often can't--the tables will say you have exceeded the NDL. So I just enter that it was a multi-level dive.
Tables advantage: Good for square profiles and more conservative (ei-you calculate NDL based on 100' depth dive but you're not always right at 100' unless your nose is in the sand). One disadvantage is reduced NDL on repetitive dive.
Computers advantage: More bottom time on truely multi-level dives. Disadvantage: When it says you have 15 mins. bottom time it means it.
 
I completed my PADI Open Water certification in July. The class materials included information on tables, but no instruction in their use. It appeared clear to me that PADI, even though they didn't come right out and say it, is recommending the use of a dive computer.

If left to my OW training I'd have only a knowledge that tables exist, and next to nothing of their use. I did some self study on the use of tables to learn the math behind the tech, but I'll continue to record all of my dives based on my computer.

That's what my vast experience of 8 dives has taught me, anyway. Take it for what it's worth. :)
 
I completed my PADI Open Water certification in July. The class materials included information on tables, but no instruction in their use. It appeared clear to me that PADI, even though they didn't come right out and say it, is recommending the use of a dive computer.

If left to my OW training I'd have only a knowledge that tables exist, and next to nothing of their use. I did some self study on the use of tables to learn the math behind the tech, but I'll continue to record all of my dives based on my computer.

With PADI, you can take the class with tables or with computers, and you can do both. If you took the computer version of the course, you should have been given a special booklet teaching computers, and you should have been given access to a pretty good online computer simulator to work with. In that case, you should nto have received either tables or the eRDPml with the course. If you received the tables or eRDPml and did not get the computer stuff and were not given table instruction, then you got the materials for one course and were taught the other course without the proper materials.

PADI has definitely accepted the reality that people are not using the tables much at all and are instead going with computers. No need to guess--they are quite open in saying so. I was trained using tables by PADI during the last millenium. My first dive experience after certification was mutli-level diving in Cozumel. I whipped out my tables to the great amusement of the rest of the divers on the boat, who explained to me how useless they were for that kind of diving. That is the last time I ever saw anyone try to use tables outside of a class.

---------- Post added August 18th, 2014 at 10:15 AM ----------

I have a basic question: My computer is a Suunto Cobra. At the end of my dives I still like to go through the SSI dive tables to log my dives to keep fresh on the use of the tables as well. When doing repetitive dives, especially when doing three or more I am frequently "running out" of bottom time according to the tables when I use them conservatively as you're supposed to while my computer still says I have bottom time left.

I know that the original SSI tables were based on the U.S. Navy tables. Although that makes them more aggressive for a first dive, it makes them much more conservative for subsequent dives because they call for much longer surface intervals than other tables. (Navy divers usually did one dive per day, so it was not a big deal.) If the SSI tables are still made that way, then that is part of your problem.

On the other hand, there is no known computer more conservative than the one you have in terms of repetitive dives, either. If you used a different computer, you would see an even more pronounced difference between the computer and the tables.

As others have said, if you are using the computer, don't even think about the pressure groups. They are not really relevant to what you are doing. Oh, I am sure someone is going to come along and say that if your computer miraculously quits on you between dives, if you have charted your table data you can still do the next dive. That is true, but since that is a pretty darn rare event, most people will take that risk.
 
....... My computer is a Suunto Cobra. ....... Is there a better/different way to log repetitive dives?

Yes. Use your dive computer and your smartphone.

[video=youtube;flUwKqQQBGA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flUwKqQQBGA[/video]
 
With PADI, you can take the class with tables or with computers, and you can do both. If you took the computer version of the course, you should have been given a special booklet teaching computers, and you should have been given access to a pretty good online computer simulator to work with. In that case, you should nto have received either tables or the eRDPml with the course. If you received the tables or eRDPml and did not get the computer stuff and were not given table instruction, then you got the materials for one course and were taught the other course without the proper materials.

PADI has definitely accepted the reality that people are not using the tables much at all and are instead going with computers. No need to guess--they are quite open in saying so. I was trained using tables by PADI during the last millenium. My first dive experience after certification was mutli-level diving in Cozumel. I whipped out my tables to the great amusement of the rest of the divers on the boat, who explained to me how useless they were for that kind of diving. That is the last time I ever saw anyone try to use tables outside of a class.

Thanks for the explanation. I did receive an eRDPml with my course materials, but the training itself was definitely computer centered. I'm not feeling slighted at all on my training, fortunately. The folks at the dive center were and continue to be extremely supportive. They offer weekly free shore dives ($25 if you need rental gear) through the summer months for folks to inexpensively continue to build on their training, and I've been able to take advantage of a few of those. I completed my 7th and 8th dive with them on Saturday, diving on two wrecks at 60' in the Straits of Mackinac. I'm hoping to hit another shore dive this Wednesday evening, a shallow wreck in the Lake Michigan side of the Straits.
 
I agree--log what you did. If you use the computer for a true multi-level dive and want to use tables to put pressure groups into your log you often can't--the tables will say you have exceeded the NDL. So I just enter that it was a multi-level dive.
It's possible to fudge a multilevel dive with the standard RDP. Article here.

I don't recommend the method as the only tool for executing a multilevel dive, since it gives longer total bottom times than e.g. multilevel simulations using PC software like the Suunto Dive Planner and/or planning on a computer (it's all about the algorithm, right?), but it provides a tool for guesstimating the pressure group after a multilevel dive. I use the method for planning my dives (like "max 25m for 25 min, then max 15m for 25 min, safety stop and surface"), but while diving I always defer to what the computer tells me. Since the execution of the dive always is more conservative than my planning, I haven't had any bad surprises. At least not yet...

It gives me a tool for estimating a multilevel plan even though I don't have the eRDPml or similar multilevel planning tools, and after the dive I can get a pressure group to put in my log.
 
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