Considering PADI master diver

[Bob Vincent]

I hope you guys understand one thing ... I can't say what certifying agency you all come from but the cert levels can't be that far apart.

One of my ratings are Master Scuba Diver Trainer Instructor, I unlike an Open Water Instructor can certify Master Divers this isn't easy to obtain. Have you tried doing it?

I do not care what agency their card is from I believe they should be respected when they reach that level. The only thing I hate in diving are attitudes. Lets give others a little respect. It really goes a long way.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I hope you guys understand one thing ... I can't say what certifying agency you all come from but the cert levels can't be that far apart.

One of my ratings are Master Scuba Diver Trainer Instructor, I unlike an Open Water Instructor can certify Master Divers this isn't easy to obtain. Have you tried doing it?

I do not care what agency their card is from I believe they should be respected when they reach that level. The only thing I hate in diving are attitudes. Lets give others a little respect. It really goes a long way.

I'm kind of guessing at what you're really getting at here but to try to answer your question as one of the critics of the PADI MSD rating...I'm a former PADI MSDT and I did a lot of student level training with PADI and conducted quit a bit of PADI training as an instructor. The thing that's been mentioned many times here is that the PADI MSD cert isn't really a cert level and doesn't represent the completion of a course. You get to a certain point (rescue, 5 specialties and 50 dives) and another pic purchase gets you a MSD card. I don't think it has anything to do with attitude. If a MSD card commands any additional respect on dive boats (as you suggested in another post) it isn't usually going to be from people who understand what it is. If it's worth the money to them and they want to buy it, that's fine but seeing it doesn't mean anything to me. 50 dives doesn't exactly rate a great big "WOW!" and I know what it takes to get the specialty cards.

I think we should extend others a little respect "just because" but I don't think one necessarily has any extra respect coming because they baught a MSD card.

 

[Thalassamania]

I hope you guys understand one thing ... I can't say what certifying agency you all come from but the cert levels can't be that far apart.

If you don't see any differences I guess we will all just have to bow to your expertise.

One of my ratings are Master Scuba Diver Trainer Instructor, I unlike an Open Water Instructor can certify Master Divers this isn't easy to obtain. Have you tried doing it?

No I couldn't possibly accomplish that, you're my hero and my guiding light.

I do not care what agency their card is from I believe they should be respected when they reach that level. The only thing I hate in diving are attitudes. Lets give others a little respect. It really goes a long way.

I have great respect for anyone who complete five whole PADI Specialty Courses and then sends PADI an extra check. I worship the water they dive in, they are the ones that I just have to have as my buddy.

 

[verybaddiver]

Would you agree more with the MSD rating if it required certain specialties to be achieved. Such as erm Night/Deep? it seems pointless that any course counts towards the 5.
WOW ive gone video/photography/dive the spiegal grove/underwater golf ball retrieval/underwater mp3 listener. now im a MSD!!! :>

 

[MikeFerrara]

Would you agree more with the MSD rating if it required certain specialties to be achieved. Such as erm Night/Deep? it seems pointless that any course counts towards the 5.
WOW ive gone video/photography/dive the spiegal grove/underwater golf ball retrieval/underwater mp3 listener. now im a MSD!!! :>

I guess the place to start is to ask what the need for the rating is in the first place. From there you can decide what should be included.

For instance, it's easy to see the need for an OW or basic diving course and certification. It's where you should be learning to dive. Other courses address specific environments or activities like cave, wreck or search and recovery. A diver with a cave certification has, in theory, been trained in cave diving. What is a master scuba diver trained in? Is he/she trained to be someones master? Does it mean that they have mastered all things diving? Just what is the certification certifying. As it is now, we know the answer. It isn't certifying anything. Sometimes proof of training is needed to gain access. Does a master scuba diver card gain a diver any additional access?

 

[Don Wray]

The Master Scuba Diver card is to denote your dedication and achievement...it is not "just buying a card" nor in any way signifying you are a more advanced diver than anyone else. It just says that you are dedicated to learning all you can and giving you credit for the attempt. There are some, that think their way is the only way. I don't know many people when told the price of some aforementioned courses, that would jump on board. There are some that at every opportunity, abase the efforts of any established agencies. I have worked for two and can tell you, when all is said and done, they isn't a nickel's worth of difference, in affordable classes. You can pay thousands, take some of the poster's classes which I'm sure are fantastic. But to dive as normal vacation divers want to do, once in a blue moon, in my humble opinion, ain't gonna happen. But then again, I'm not God's gift to diving, I just enjoy what I'm doing, when I'm doing it, as safely as I can. I believe my instructor's in the past, had that in mind, and I am very comfortable in the water, enjoying my sport.

 

[MikeFerrara]

The Master Scuba Diver card is to denote your dedication and achievement...it is not "just buying a card" nor in any way signifying you are a more advanced diver than anyone else. It just says that you are dedicated to learning all you can and giving you credit for the attempt.

Naturally I disagree. Each of the five specialties and the rescue course required for MSD results in a certification which denotes achievement (successful completion of the course). Now that the student has done all these classes and learned whatever they learned and having whatever dedication and desire to learn that they had, they are still not granted a Master Scuba Diver certification. However, getting one doesn't require anymore learning. All they need to do is send PADI some more money.

There are some, that think their way is the only way. I don't know many people when told the price of some aforementioned courses, that would jump on board. There are some that at every opportunity, abase the efforts of any established agencies. I have worked for two and can tell you, when all is said and done, they isn't a nickel's worth of difference, in affordable classes.

I've never worked for an agency but I've been an instructor with two different agencies and taken courses from several others. Maybe you did work for an agency but somehow I don't think that's what you mean. Instructors and divemasters are NOT emplyees of an agency...they are CUSTOMERS (primary customers) of the agency. I think there is a big difference between agencies and individual courses...though, I have no idea what you consider to be affordable.

You can pay thousands, take some of the poster's classes which I'm sure are fantastic. But to dive as normal vacation divers want to do, once in a blue moon, in my humble opinion, ain't gonna happen.

I don't know what you consider to be a normal vacation diver but when I hear the term, I think rototiller...I think divers who were judged by the industry to be unable, uninterested or unworthy to be taught what they really need to know to dive well so were just taught breathing underwater. Even though some may have been sold master scuba diver cards.

But then again, I'm not God's gift to diving, I just enjoy what I'm doing, when I'm doing it, as safely as I can. I believe my instructor's in the past, had that in mind, and I am very comfortable in the water, enjoying my sport.

Are you really doing it as safely as you could? As responsibly as you could? Maybe you are but what is your measure? Comfort in the water is good but it isn't necessarily evidence of skill. Comfort, at least in part, is emotion that may not always be well founded.

 

[Don Wray]

I guess my measure is the same as many. I study hard. Put into practice what I've learned, and I enjoy what I'm doing. In the courses I have worked with, we do not allow "rototilling" as part of the curiculum. Nor do we allow using hands to swim underwater. We do not teach all skills kneeling on the bottom. The buoyancy portions are not just fin pivots and 30 second hovering. We may initally teach the skills kneeling, but they are taught again while horizontal in the water column. And we are PADI affiliated.

 

[RJP]

Naturally I disagree.

I think you may have found a new signature line.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I guess my measure is the same as many. I study hard. Put into practice what I've learned, and I enjoy what I'm doing. In the courses I have worked with, we do not allow "rototilling" as part of the curiculum. Nor do we allow using hands to swim underwater. We do not teach all skills kneeling on the bottom. The buoyancy portions are not just fin pivots and 30 second hovering. We may initally teach the skills kneeling, but they are taught again while horizontal in the water column. And we are PADI affiliated.

That all sounds good and I have absolutely no reason not to believe that your crew teaches a fine class. But, I don't think the standards require such a fine class so there are lots of them out there and they can result in the exact same cards.