Contingency planning in OW training?

[TMHeimer]

wetb4, OK I agree on no excuse for any confusing wording in materials. Like when you look at your cable or satellite "guide" and the show it says for 8 P.M. isn't on--something else is. They surely have someone in charge of that sort of thing (probably need no more than one person). I've seen odd stuff here & there in PADI manuals that escaped proof-reading. I recently had my book published (2018) and won't get into how many typos the PUBLISHER made and expected me to approve. I found that made exactly one spelling mistake compared to maybe over 70 for them in converting my manuscript.

Oh, one of my favourites in the 2006 EFR manual is (even though you do know what it means)--
"Responder takes the first breath (of O2) but doesn't exhale". I ask-- EVER??!! It's a small manual--did no one ever think this is oddly funny when proof reading?

 

[Esprise Me]

If you feel your question has been misunderstood then clarify it.

You mention "rules". What rule(s)? Be specific.

That's exactly my point. Among the rules taught in OW are 1) don't run out of air, and 2) stay with your buddy. What are the rules for what to do when you're low on air (or out) but your buddy refuses to ascend? I don't believe any such rule was taught in my OW course. Others (who incidentally understood the first time I explained) agree. You insisted right out of the gate that I was wrong, that this specific problem is on the test. So what does it say?

 

[Blackcrusader]

That's exactly my point. Among the rules taught in OW are 1) don't run out of air, and 2) stay with your buddy. What are the rules for what to do when you're low on air (or out) but your buddy refuses to ascend? I don't believe any such rule was taught in my OW course. Others (who incidentally understood the first time I explained) agree. You insisted right out of the gate that I was wrong, that this specific problem is on the test. So what does it say?

If you are low on air and your buddy refuses to ascend then ascend and go do your safety stop. Or start using your buddies secondary. We are in all respect solo divers responsible for our own safety first. Your buddy isn't much of a buddy if they want to continue the dive and you run out of air.

I have finished many dives where I could continue for another hour but my dive buddies would all have drowned by then. Look at the air I have left after this dive to max 20m and 50 mins dive time. We had other divers on the boat with 40 bar. Should I have kept diving? Of course not.

 

[Esprise Me]

If you are low on air and your buddy refuses to ascend then ascend and go do your safety stop. Or start using your buddies secondary.
We are in all respect solo divers responsible for our own safety first. Your buddy isn't much of a buddy if they want to continue the dive and you run out of air.

I have finished many dives where I could continue for another hour but my dive buddies would all have drowned by then. Look at the air I have left after this dive to max 20m and 50 mins dive time. We had other divers on the boat with 40 bar. Should I have kept diving? Of course not.

Is that what your OW course taught you, or what you've learned from experience?

 

[Blackcrusader]

Is that what your OW course taught you, or what you've learned from experience?

Can't remember what my OW course taught me in 1986. In any case if running out of air is one of them then finishing a dive before you run out of air is surely a safety issue. Why should a diver risk death because a dive buddy won't follow the instruction to end the dive. As I wrote above any diver can call to end a dive at any time. Low on air is not the only reason to end the dive.

You are responsible for yourself first. If you are low on air then you do not have enough reserve to help another diver if they too are low on air. End the dive is the correct course of action even if your dive buddy ignores you. Then the rule is that if your dive buddy cannot find you they must do a 1 minute search and then also head for the surface. Common sense also applies to keeping yourself safe.

 

[HKGuns]

A little common sense and situational awareness goes a very long way.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Lots of people do things in hindsight that don’t make sense.

Human Factors Skills in Diving - Home

 

[Steve_C]

With the air assumption exception, I am not sure I would use the word "rules". There are recommended practices, which do not cover all situations and you are supposed to use your head. One simple example you are diving a wreck. You have plenty of air and your "buddy" swims off into the wreck out of sight. You are untrained or not equipped for wreck penetration. Note that if you go up you desert them. If you stay you are without a buddy.

Personally as long as I had sufficient air I would wait outside in case they emerged low on air and then never dive with them again. IF there is a large lit area inside I would enter that and see if they were in that area but not do a full penetration. (I dive with a pony that can be passed off to another diver)

 

[shurite7]

Among the rules taught in OW are 1) don't run out of air, and 2) stay with your buddy.

You are really caught up on "rules" as if every person will abide by them. The real issue is, do you plan with your buddy and discuss what your actions will be in such cases? If so, that is great. If not and you chose to rely on your buddy to abide by rules, then expect problems to occur.

What are the rules for what to do when you're low on air (or out) but your buddy refuses to ascend?

If you have a buddy who refuses to not follow the plan, then that is a buddy not worth diving with.

What are the rules for what to do when you're low on air (or out) but your buddy refuses to ascend? I don't believe any such rule was taught in my OW course.

What I am not going to be is a forum member who jumps on the wagon stating everything thing has to be taught, which is impossible. You stated it wasn't taught, yet it is. It is covered in chapter three of the PADI OW manual. In addition to that, you need to discuss this with your buddy prior to the dive.

Others (who incidentally understood the first time I explained) agree. You insisted right out of the gate that I was wrong, that this specific problem is on the test. So what does it say?

I've already stated earlier, I will not type out the entire question; it specifically notes low on air, both on the quiz and on the test. If you can't remember the questions, then go to your instructor and ask to see them.




Plan your dive and dive your plan. Rules and guidelines do not guarantee they will be followed. You and your buddy must make those decisions, prior to and during the dive.

 

[Diving Dubai]

That's exactly my point. Among the rules taught in OW are 1) don't run out of air, and 2) stay with your buddy. What are the rules for what to do when you're low on air (or out) but your buddy refuses to ascend? I don't believe any such rule was taught in my OW course. Others (who incidentally understood the first time I explained) agree. You insisted right out of the gate that I was wrong, that this specific problem is on the test. So what does it say?

OOA. Remember CESA?

Low on Air. Air Sharing ascent

Constant checking of SPG

Buddy Check and final checks of gear before splashing


All taught during OW

Here's the thing. I've taken Aow Students that have sat the OW course recently with an instructure I trust and respect, and all skills (except CESA) are refreshed to much grumbling

All skills were a complete CF. and I know said instructor would have not allowed them to pass without them being repeatable


Many times I've "almost drowned" while playing the OOA victim on AoW and rescue courses to student, who think their the cats pyjamas of diving


Its like people do courses and then empty their brains because they're "too cool to practice drills"