Could/should I do rescue?

[tbone1004]

@Diver0001 the course that I took was a full semester long so much more comprehensive just based on the time that we had. It was also co-taught by EMS instructors, and when I took it, the intent was for me to get into technical and professional diving.
The scenarios that I have been involved with where while I was in a teaching capacity, albeit with divers not under my supervision. Difference was that we had all of the equipment. Three of the scenarios I was in the water and happened to see it and helped get the guy to shore, one I was on land and just grabbed the stuff I needed and off we went. In the three up front, the skills I needed were taught in my OW course. How to get the guy to the surface, how to establish positive buoyancy of an unconscious or non-responsive diver, and how to tow him somewhere. They were reinforced in rescue, but not taught. The surface one was nothing diving specific that isn't taught in a normal BLS course.

I wouldn't deny the average diver of extra education, but I will say that you are unlikely to gain as much from it as you would in another course.

As I said, how to get a diver to the surface and surface tows NEEDS to be taught in basic OW, and is with my agency. It's a long path to rescue from OW for most divers, and you may have a situation on your first ever dive where you need to get them to the surface and to shore to get help. Why delay the basic training of how to get someone safely to the surface and shore?
Once on shore, there is nothing that the rescue course does for you because they all require CPR/First Aid/O2 admin prior to the course or to be taught concurrently. If you don't have the equipment for that, there really isn't anything you can do and unfortunately most people don't have it. I did specifically say you should take those courses and if you are diving remotely, you should have the equipment. If you are diving with operators, they're not going to let you manage the scene anyway since they have a responsibility to do it and you are probably coming out of the water, so just do as you are asked if you are asked to do anything. If you were in the water, they're going to have other people running around because you're probably exhausted from towing.
All that is left is the nonsense of giving rescue breaths in the water where you're going to drown the poor bugger at the surface, or take too long to get to shore where you're causing more problems than they already had, or finding someone that is lost but the odds of that are slim to none anyway and most of the "skills" taught for that are laughable anyway.

@KatieMac my opinion on watering down isn't from a course structure, elearning etc. It's from most instructors not actually knowing how to teach it in a realistic manner because they're either never done it, or are painting a very optimistic picture of how it will go. There are exceptions, sounds like Rob is one of them, but most of it is from inferior instruction vs. a watering down of the course itself. Most importantly, the course really can't be effectively taught in 2 days. There is WAY too much stuff to teach. Hell the OWT for our rescue course is 4 days long and each day is 12-14 hours. Courses like that can only really be taught thru universities though and are impractical for most.
Similar to @Diver0001 e-learning is only detrimental if it is replacing classroom time vs. enhancing it. E-learning is great because lectures suck. Even in college courses, you give online lectures, then assign homework, and use the classroom time to go over the homework to really hammer in true understanding. Unfortunately MOST shops are using e-learning to replace the classroom time and in a course like rescue that can be really bad.

Regarding sac rate, there is essentially a single formula that is used in pretty much all scuba math. In nitrox, it is ppO2=fO2*pressure ata to calculate your MOD. For gas consumption, it is depth air consumption=surface air consumption*pressure ATA. So you need three variables. Time, depth *in ATA*, and how much gas you consumed. Take the cubic ft or liters of gas you consumed and divide it by the time that you measured to get cfm/lpm which is your depth air consumption. Divide that number by the average depth during that period of time and that normalizes to surface air consumption.

 

[bmorescuba]

OP - there are very few people who regret taking the rescue course. I'm sure some people wish it was harder, easier, different, etc. But everyone picks up some new skills. One of the most valuable things I learned was assessing divers (esp. strangers) before an issue becomes a big problem. That's a skill I use all the time to this day.

That being said, there's no rush and you may get a little more out of it if you have a few more dives under your belt. I've always thought the 75 dive mark is a good time for rescue. I see you're a photographer - if you're looking for a new challenge, have you tried shooting underwater yet? As long as your basic buoyancy is good and you can keep from crashing into things, shooting underwater can open up a whole new world of challenges and excitement. The ability to handle the increased task loading that photography brings can also help your mental focus when thinking about rescue scenarios. Just a thought...

 

[Bowers]

As a data and analytics geek, I absolutely would like to. How do I do that?

i sent you a message

 

[Lorenzoid]

New diver - 37 dives over 3 trips to the Caribbean and finished AOW on most recent trip.

So what's next?
- I'm really good on air - usually using about 1600 pounds on a 60 min dive.
- I'm (reasonably) good on buoyancy although I know there is room for improvement.
- I need work on finning techniques - especially backwards.

I'm reasonably fit but not athletic, not a strong swimmer and I'm pretty small.

Worried that the requirements for rescue might be too physically difficult for me. So where do I go from here?

Yours are common concerns, as evidenced by the number of threads asking the same sort of things by divers of modest physical stature, with "only" 25, 50, or whatever dives, etc. You can look through those threads if you haven't already, but from what I recall, the majority of responses advise taking Rescue sooner rather than later, as soon as you feel comfortable in the water. You have 37 dives over 3 trips--my guess is you are comfortable in the water.

The fitness question is common, and I would say don't worry about it. Petite girls take Rescue and do fine.

Air consumption, precision buoyancy control and finning techniques are essentially irrelevant in the Rescue course. The in-water exercises are short in duration and get right to the point, as in: jump in and rescue someone. Precision is not a factor.

 

[tbone1004]

@outofofficebrb

your comments on focusing on each other emphasizes my first point of take a basic diving fundamentals type course. Cavern, intro to tech, GUE fundies etc. They do that along with covering some more useful things to being a better diver. We focus on buddy diving from OW, so that sounds like a failing in your OW/AOW courses more than a need to justify rescue. That said, your statement only goes to emphasize "Put Another Dollar In". Your first paragraph sounds like the perfect need for GUE Fundies vs. a rescue course....

Regarding the rest of your bullets, it looks like you didn't read the entire posts where I covered a recommendation to take CPR/First Aid/O2 admin, AND to take a fundamentals type course that covers how to prevent that situation from spiraling, as well as the fact that my agency teaches how to get a diver to the surface and to the shore at the OW level. That literally leaves S&R which most people never practice to actually get good enough at to make a half-decent attempt.

Surface Tows-should be covered in OW
Equipment-I am referring to first aid kit/O2 kit/AED. If you are near rescue personnel, beach/boat etc. they are going to take over the situation as soon as they get there and CPR is CPR regardless of if you take it in a rescue course or at a fire station
S&R-valid, and that is where I said some of the exceptions live. The OP said all of her diving has been in the caribbean, you aren't doing S&R in the Caribbean when diving in a large group like you would in a murky lake or in the kelp forests. How much of your course really focused on finding people?
Panicked diver-very real, and depends on the instructor to how "active" they end up being. Sounds like you got a good one, most of the ones I see don't even get anywhere near real.

You can disagree with whatever you want, but you emphasized by point of taking a fundamentals type course to be a better buddy and prevent a situation from arising, and then take CPR/O2/First Aid as a general good for being an adult course. If you do those, what is left?

 

[outofofficebrb]

@outofofficebrb

your comments on focusing on each other emphasizes my first point of take a basic diving fundamentals type course. Cavern, intro to tech, GUE fundies etc. They do that along with covering some more useful things to being a better diver. We focus on buddy diving from OW, so that sounds like a failing in your OW/AOW courses more than a need to justify rescue. That said, your statement only goes to emphasize "Put Another Dollar In". Your first paragraph sounds like the perfect need for GUE Fundies vs. a rescue course....

Regarding the rest of your bullets, it looks like you didn't read the entire posts where I covered a recommendation to take CPR/First Aid/O2 admin, AND to take a fundamentals type course that covers how to prevent that situation from spiraling, as well as the fact that my agency teaches how to get a diver to the surface and to the shore at the OW level. That literally leaves S&R which most people never practice to actually get good enough at to make a half-decent attempt.

Surface Tows-should be covered in OW
Equipment-I am referring to first aid kit/O2 kit/AED. If you are near rescue personnel, beach/boat etc. they are going to take over the situation as soon as they get there and CPR is CPR regardless of if you take it in a rescue course or at a fire station
S&R-valid, and that is where I said some of the exceptions live. The OP said all of her diving has been in the caribbean, you aren't doing S&R in the Caribbean when diving in a large group like you would in a murky lake or in the kelp forests
Panicked diver-very real, and depends on the instructor to how "active" they end up being. Sounds like you got a good one, most of the ones I see don't even get anywhere near real.

You can disagree with whatever you want, but you emphasized by point of taking a fundamentals type course to be a better buddy and prevent a situation from arising, and then take CPR/O2/First Aid as a general good for being an adult course. If you do those, what is left?

I am responding specifically to your comments about Rescue being a joke and being laughable. To fully discredit the value of Rescue to me, is a joke and laughable. Recommending other courses is fine but not what I am addressing.

Buddy diving in OW is taught because it's a necessity - if you are out of air, YOU need air, because it benefits YOU. Helping or rescuing someone else benefits THEM.

-Surface tows covered in OW are just tows - nothing else. Just towing. No rescue breaths. Unless you are arguing that these are not needed at all.
- Yes, they will take over and manage - but if you are capable, you are able to help and can assist if requested.
- OP is not always just going to be diving in the Caribbean with clear viz. By the way, you can have amazing viz in the Caribbean one day and lower viz the next if the conditions are right. Having that knowledge base is still a good foundation for the OP.

The average diver's progression from AOW will be to rescue and not to the other classes you suggest - many people will not jump over to GUE or take Fundies, Cavern, Intro to Tech because they have no interest in going tech or to cave or do not identify with the culture or the organization, or understand it completely. Also, GUE has very high standards and there are a portion of divers who may not "fit" or "jive" with it and the culture. The avenue that a lot of people will ask about will be Rescue because that is the next step up from AOW. Additionally, a lot of people have taken it and have raved about it and we can't deny the excellent marketing from PADI. That in itself has an effect. As it applies to this discussion, to suggest that it does nothing for the OP and that it is a waste of time is silly. You could argue that it is not as good as a course offering from XYZ from GUE, or a semester long program, but to write it off completely is a miss to me. If someone is short on time, funds, has no interest in GUE or tech classes, etc., and Rescue works for them, then I think it is a good thing to take.

 

[Diver0001]

@Diver0001 the course that I took was a full semester long so much more comprehensive just based on the time that we had.

I obviously wasn't there but I took diving at university too and we learned in 13 weeks what most shops teach in 6. A "longer" course does not always translate directly into a "better" course. Universities are particularly good in making young impressionable students think that "longer = better" but most of the adult world knows better.

I wouldn't deny the average diver of extra education, but I will say that you are unlikely to gain as much from it as you would in another course.

I'm glad to see you back-peddling from your previous stance but I still don't agree with you. I think the rescue course has a great deal of value for learning divers.

R..

 

[Lorenzoid]

For me, Rescue wasn't so much about learning individual skills as it was about boosting my confidence; it got me thinking that I really might just be able to identify when there's an emergency situation and act on it. I found the scenarios, where the instructor throws something at the students, who are expected to determine what's going on and react accordingly, to be invaluable. A good instructor will (I am guessing, not being an instructor) use the scenarios to help students integrate the individual skills. "Look, something's going on--let's handle it!" That was a pretty cool feeling. I suspect most people finishing a Rescue course feel a least a little more confident in their ability to perceive when something needs to be done and act on it.

 

[tbone1004]

@Diver0001 where can you still find a shop with a 6 week long OW course or rescue course? Rescue is usually 2 days here at OW, sometimes 3 with one in the classroom. OW is usually 3-4 pool sessions that are a couple hours long, and 2 days at OWT.
Yes, I do agree that longer does not equal better, however it certainly can. No different than practice makes permanent, only perfect practice makes perfect.

@outofofficebrb please read the first sentence, of my first post, where I said "most" not all, followed immediately by "there are exceptions". I did not discredit rescue as a course, I discredited most rescue courses as being ineffective, which I still stand behind.

Your buddy diving comments is a failure on your initial instruction. The emphasis should always be "you never get in this situation, you are there to help someone else who got into that situation". If your course was taught with the emphasis you just wrote, then you had poor instruction. That simple.

Surface towing with rescue breaths should really never be attempted in real life. It will slow you down so much and increase the risk of the diver aspirating water that it will compound so many more issues. I don't care what the courses say, do NOT attempt to give rescue breaths in the water if you are within any reasonable distance of someone at the shore.

You are perfectly emphasizing "put another dollar in" right now. I don't care about GUE, don't take it with them if you don't like them, take it with PADI their tec program is actually halfway decent, take it with TDI, doesn't matter, but those courses are going to do just about everything that rescue will do and that much more to help prevent an accident from evolving. It has nothing to do with tech diving, it has everything to do with being a good diver. You are quite literally saying "take rescue because PADI says it's next, don't look outside the box at better alternatives that are out there that teach you all of the important stuff that is in rescue and then actually make you a better diver skills wise".

 

[outofofficebrb]

@Diver0001
You are perfectly emphasizing "put another dollar in" right now. I don't care about GUE, don't take it with them if you don't like them, take it with PADI their tec program is actually halfway decent, take it with TDI, doesn't matter, but those courses are going to do just about everything that rescue will do and that much more to help prevent an accident from evolving. It has nothing to do with tech diving, it has everything to do with being a good diver. You are quite literally saying "take rescue because PADI says it's next, don't look outside the box at better alternatives that are out there that teach you all of the important stuff that is in rescue and then actually make you a better diver skills wise".

Please do not construe what was actually said to what you thought it said. Please re-read. I explained why some people will naturally go to PADI - they do a great job marketing without a doubt. I also said part of the reason is because some people do not understand GUE or have no interest in tech so they dismiss it and do so because they might not fully understand who and what it is about and can be intimidated by it. I'm not saying that people should ONLY consider Rescue with PADI but inevitably, that is what happens as a result of the former which I was trying to explain. IF that happened, then taking Rescue vs. nothing else at all is better than nothing and I would suggest divers to take it.

Here is my original post:

The average diver's progression from AOW will be to rescue and not to the other classes you suggest - many people will not jump over to GUE or take Fundies, Cavern, Intro to Tech because they have no interest in going tech or to cave or do not identify with the culture or the organization, or understand it completely. Also, GUE has very high standards and there are a portion of divers who may not "fit" or "jive" with it and the culture. The avenue that a lot of people will ask about will be Rescue because that is the next step up from AOW. Additionally, a lot of people have taken it and have raved about it and we can't deny the excellent marketing from PADI. That in itself has an effect. As it applies to this discussion, to suggest that it does nothing for the OP and that it is a waste of time is silly. You could argue that it is not as good as a course offering from XYZ from GUE, or a semester long program, but to write it off completely is a miss to me. If someone is short on time, funds, has no interest in GUE or tech classes, etc., and Rescue works for them, then I think it is a good thing to take.