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CPR in water when close to shore / boat what to do first?

Discussion in 'Advanced Scuba Discussions' started by victor, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. TSandM

    TSandM Missed and loved by many. Rest in Peace ScubaBoard Supporter

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    You can't do CPR unless you have the patient's chest lying on an incompressible and rigid support of some kind. It's impossible in the water.

    The patient who is not breathing most likely has no circulation, either; but in a few cases, you may have someone who is narcotized from high CO2 because they got laryngospasm, or because they tried to avoid drowning. One or two "rescue" breaths may be enough to stimulate spontaneous respirations, which would significantly increase the chance of survival.

    I firmly believe that, if you have an unresponsive diver who is not breathing, you should give the best two rescue breaths you can, and then two like crazy to the nearest firm ground. Remember that a patient wearing a backplate doesn't necessary need SMOOTH ground, but just someplace you can support the plate, because they make excellent platforms on which to do CPR.
     
    robertarak and Rogersea like this.
  2. Kevrumbo

    Kevrumbo Banned

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    What about attempting modified chest thrusts --if you can-- as well as rescue breathing as you're towing the victim? (Modified chest thrusts from behind as in the modified Heimlich maneuver. . .)

    What if you're downcurrent in a remote location with a victim in full arrest on the surface, and a skiff from a live aboard coming for rescue?

    (You gotta try and do what you can do for as long as you can. . .)
     
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  3. nimoh

    nimoh Public Safety Diver

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    Lynne,

    you mentioned using the backplate, would you ditch the tank and leave them in their harness?

    I suppose with doubles you could leave the tanks on, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't carry most people wearing doubles out of the water.
     
  4. Medicdiver0125

    Medicdiver0125 Nassau Grouper

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    I have been a firefighter paramedic for some time now and probably done cpr a few hundered times. The american heart ass. just changed what they call bystander cpr or basic cpr to just chest compressions. This makes sense for a few reasons. 1 the amount of o2 being delivered with a rescue breath is minimal at best. 2 most of a rescue breath does not even make it to the lungs it goes in the stomach.3 your rescue breath is comprised mostly of co2. 4 if you are not doing good compressions you are not moving any oxygenated blood around the body which would include enough risidual oxygenated blood to support brain function. That all being said your best bet is to get to solid ground and do really good chest compressions at a rate of 100 or more
     
  5. victor

    victor Solo Diver

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    This was my thought.
    Dump the tank and the weight belt, use your fist or a weight to provide presure on the heart, work from behind.
    It would be very hard work as you would not have gravity on your side but it might be possible.
    What do people think?

     
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  6. nimoh

    nimoh Public Safety Diver

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    I don't think it would work. I am 210lbs, and I generally have to put all my weight into a thrust to get the green light to go off on a CPR dummy. Even if I could generate it, I doubt I could sustain it.
     
  7. ffemtdiver300

    ffemtdiver300 Angel Fish

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    Don't bother with CPR until on boat or shore. Best thing to do is strip gear and breaths. It is also very hard to assess circulation in water.
     
  8. LindaSSF

    LindaSSF Angel Fish

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    Fast movement to a firm surface (boat or land) prior to starting compressions. Access an AED if it is available for a fast shock, if indicated. If the person is in atral fibrillation (a shockable rhythm), every minute prior to shock loses 10% of the chance of bringing the heart back to a normal rythm. In other words, after about 10 minutes, your chances are approaching zero. This is one of the very sad reasons that out of hospital CPR has about a 17% success rate.
     
  9. boulderjohn

    boulderjohn Technical Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

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    While I fully agree with these comments and would do exactly that myself, people should be aware that there are those who do not agree with this and will teach something different. If you get different instruction, ask why and then think for yourself.

    ---------- Post Merged at 05:08 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:03 PM ----------

    To be honest, this makes no sense to me at all.

    The truth of the matter is that a person who is unconscious at depth is not likely to survive no matter what you do. The ascent really has no effect. The insurance rates cannot be based on that concept.

    In another thread, someone from the insurance agency said the higher rates have nothing to do with scuba itself but is rather based on the fact that people who scuba dive are apparently more likely to participate in a variety of high risk activities. Most of the people I dive with, for example, are rock climbers.
     
  10. Jim Baldwin

    Jim Baldwin Instructor, Scuba

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    I will echo what almost everyone else has said. In water CPR does not/cannot be done successfully. I learned CPR back in the 60's as a scout. High school and college water sports and teaching PADI Rescue class each quarter for nearly 10 years. You've got to have a hard surface to push against.

    I like the tank valve tow for speed and safety. My students do the rescue drills taking the gear off and swimming with an unconscious diver and a dummy. This builds confidence and incorporates task loading with having to give rescue breaths every five seconds.

    Never fails in every class the question gets asks wouldn't it be faster to simply swim the diver straight to the boat or shore. Absolutely. Why waste valuable minutes on something that is very marginal at best.

    I also tell them that they could encounter a situation where gear removal is necessary hence the training.
     

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