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Current state of the Union on heated undies?

Discussion in 'Exposure Suits' started by stuartv, Mar 19, 2020.

  1. DiveClimbRide

    DiveClimbRide Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: New Zealand, South Island
    169
    99
    Watch the two videos in the post quoted. I believe it has to do with circulation when the body is hot and cold.
     
  2. Bobby

    Bobby Dive Equipment Manufacturer

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Charleston, SC
    526
    419
    In my blog about out G6 heat controller there are links to Dr. Pollock's peer reviewed work on the subject of heat and DCS.
     
    wetb4igetinthewater and longk14 like this.
  3. drk5036

    drk5036 ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Sapporo, Japan
    706
    584
    ...what, you actually expected me to watch the videos?

    OK, I did watch the first one now, and the second part of it that wasn't linked. Pretty interesting, and the data from the paper presented clearly backs up what tbone was saying. I'm still interested in WHY though, which wasn't clearly explained. I think you must be correct, a change in circulation. Based on that data, I think it makes sense that using heat in the second half of the dive seems reasonable, but you would want to be careful about the temperature. Assuming it is mild heat, less than a hot shower for instance, I think it would have to help off-gassing. But if you go with what the good doc in the video says, you should probably better off just letting yourself remain cold. It'll be uncomfortable, but won't kill you.
     
  4. barth

    barth DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Netherlands
    254
    140
    Burning marks on the skin and/or burning marks in heating products of Santi.

    I don’t know, last summer I did a 3,5 hour dive, max depth >50 meter. I didn’t turn off my heating at the end of the dive at the surface.The result was small burning marks on my skin. Maybe it was my own fault I don’t know, it didn’t happen again.

    But this year a lot of people are complaining, much more then in the past.

    People are telling me Santi started to using cheaper components. I don’t know if it’s true. But what’s true that a lot of people are complaining about quality of Santi heated products. The burning mark I did see by myself was caused by the connector of a Santi 200 heated undersuit.

    (I can sent you names of divers who are complaining by pm.)

    I know a lot of people who are using Santi heated products including myself.
     
  5. rduquesnoy

    rduquesnoy Contributor

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Netherlands
    71
    34
    Strange, but not something that should happen if you ask me. Any response from the seller and / or Santi?
     
  6. stuartv

    stuartv Seeking the Light ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Lexington, SC
    9,804
    5,607
    The short, simple answer is that when you are cold your body restricts circulation to your extremities. Less blood flow to an area means less dissolved gas being carried to or from (depending on whether you're on-gassing or off-gassing) that area. Less blood transported through an area means less gas is absorbed or released.

    So, being cold when you're on-gassing is okay. You take up less inert gas in your extremities. Being warm when you're off-gassing is (usually) okay, because you are getting inert gas out of your extremities more quickly.

    Tangent alert! This is related to why you may notice having to pee not long after you get into cold water. When your body starts restricting blood flow to the extremities, that means it is retaining extra blood in the core. It stores a lot of that in the spleen (IIRC). Your body will then start working to relieve the stress of all that extra fluid in the core by kicking your kidneys (again, IIRC) into overdrive to pull water out and eliminate it. There is a scientific term for this, which I am too lazy to go look up. I'm sure some smart cookie will post it shortly. :)

    I have spent many (MANY!) hours wearing/using electrically heated undergarments while riding motorcycles. My experience is that when you are cold, you can easily turn your undies up high enough to get localized burns and not realize it at all - until you start to warm up. Then it can feel like you are just getting burned. I am speaking from direct, personal experience of more than one occasion. I have done many long motorcycle rides (anywhere from 3 to 15 hours with only stopping for fuel) in temperatures less than 40F/3C. And many more of even longer duration, in warmer (but still cold!) temps.

    In other words, even though you forgot to turn off your undies at the end of that one dive, I would strongly suspect you already had been burned and just didn't know it.
     
    kumimonster, Esprise Me and drk5036 like this.
  7. BFRedrocks

    BFRedrocks ScubaBoard Sponsor ScubaBoard Sponsor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Phoenix, AZ
    477
    166
    Hey, tough to say only because so far my only diving with the BZ400 heated full suit and gloves was in Antarctica and salt water (for the most part), and my diving with the Flex 2.0 vest has been in my local freshwater lake. I generally had like 30 lbs (14 kg) during the Antarctica dives (water temp about 1 deg C) and I tend to carry about 18 lbs (8.5 kg) during my freshwater lake dives (water temp about 12 deg C). YMMV.
     
    ZeroG likes this.
  8. njdiverjoe

    njdiverjoe Contributor

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: NJ
    187
    79
    I've got the LightMonkey heated shirt and it's alright -- on a couple of occasions I've been burnt from it, one resulting in a blister and some scarring. I "mostly flooded" my suit once with it and it appeared pretty useless, I think it just doesn't have the power to heat the water. A lot of the guys I dive with use the Trojan heated vest (70 or 75 watts heat vs the LM at 40w) but I haven't tried it myself.

    For canisters I've got a LM and a Trojan canister -- the Trojan wins hands down.
     
  9. ericfine50

    ericfine50 DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Grafton, MA
    1,452
    68
    what do you like about the Trojan vest and Canister?
     
  10. njdiverjoe

    njdiverjoe Contributor

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: NJ
    187
    79
    Like I said in my post I haven't tried the vest but a lot of guys I dive have them and love them -- it's also much cheaper than the LM heated shirt.

    So for full disclosure I've been diving with the guy who started bringing Trojan over from the EU for some time -- I don't receive compensation for reviews, etc.

    Anyways -- the things I like about the Trojan canister:
    • for the same capacity it's more compact than the LM one.
    • it has a power regulator much like the LM Pitkin controller (I put LM and Trojan as tied here)
    • where the entire top of the LM canister opens, the Trojan one stays sealed and only has a port opening to plug in the charger
    • overall I get the impression the Trojan canister is of much higher build quality

    When I bought my canister I picked it up in person and had him change the E/O cord on my LM canister, The inside of LM canister seems very "garage built" while the Trojan appears to be more professional engineered. Trojan seems to be using higher quality parts as well -- for example the LM cable gland is plastic and super cheap, while the Trojan uses a very nice stainless steel cable gland.

    My overall impression is that Trojan provides a much higher quality product and at a lower price point too.
     
    ericfine50 likes this.

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