D1 Hybrid wrist seals leaking - NOT resolved!

[NJMike]

I had posted in another thread that the problem I was having with the wrist seals leaking on my NEW D1 Hybrid was resolved when I discovered that the wrist seals were installed incorrectly so that the silicone was pinched between the two oval rings, creating what I thought was channels for water to find its way through.

However, replacing the seals with new seals and making sure the installation was correct did not correct the problem.

The suit was sent to a dry suit repair facility who was very pleasant and customer oriented, did several different tests after talking with me, but could not produce a leak.

The suit is now on its way back to my local dive shop, who has NOT been customer oriented at all.

Waterproof customer support has been excellent. I am waiting to hear from one of their techs. The customer rep seems to be very willing to work with me and we are trying to determine the next steps.

I am 100% sure that BOTH sleeves leak and it is NOT from "tendon channels" being formed on my wrists as I move my hands around. I tested this by standing in chest deep water and lowering my arms into the water WITHOUT getting the top of the seals (where they touch the skin of my wrist) into the water. So my wrists and hands never got wet. My arms were lowered so that the water surface was above the outer shell cuffs and water filled the area where the two hard rings are mated. And yes, BOTH sleeves leaked after 5 minutes.

I am at a loss as to how to explain why a simple lowering of my arms will leak water but the pressure tests that the repair facility did produced no leaks. And again, they were very helpful, listened to me on the phone, and performed at least two additional tests after talking with me.

Twenty-eight hours after my last dive day with it, the sleeves of the inner mesh liner were still damp from the previous day's diving.

Si Tech has come out with a dry gove system for the D1 Hybrid, called "Antares". I researched their system, looking for ideas. I did find one thing which was slightly different and would be easy to test.

Also, I will call the repair facility and ask if they removed and replaced the seals BEFORE they begain their testing. If they did, then it might support the argument that I never had them installed properly. If that's the case, I can "blame everyone else" since there is absolutely NO documentation anywhere on how to install them LOL !!!

Si Tech has a nice user manual for their Antares dry glove system, which is designed for use with the D1 Hybrid, and I have printed it out for reference. Since it is designed for the D1, I am assuming that what they say could also be applied to the Waterproof wrist seal installation process. And again, it says that the silicone seals should be installed in one of TWO ways, depending on your suit. They don't specify the difference in the suits that would make one installation better than the other, but it is something that I can try.

I have personally talked to two other divers who have the same drysuit and they both said they have the same problem. I'm not sure how that will fit in with my problem, but it is interesting to note that...

I will continue to post updates on this thread and hope that I can find the answer that I can share with everyone else so that they do not have to go through the same problems.

 

[NJMike]

Issue continues to be unresolved. Yesterday it was the worst so far. After 2 dives I was able to wring water out of one of my undergarment sleeves. I was next to two divers who were drysuit repair guys. They replaced one writst seal with a latex seal to see if there was a difference on the next dive but there wasn't. Both undergarment sleeves were wet.

My honest opinion is that there is an issue with the design of the wrist seal system. Please don't get me wrong - I am not here to blast Waterproof. I actually like the suit, notwithstanding the wrist problem. I do not want a different suit. In fact, I don't even want my money back for this one. I installed a pee-valve on it before I ever used it and the pee-valve works great!

But anyway you slice it, after diving, if you take the wrist ring out, water is UNDER the silicone seal. The ring has several ridges and grooves and water is found all around it - UNDER the silicone seal. If the seal is working, I can't explain how the water gets there....

I am looking into replacing the Waterproof wrist seals with DUI's zip seals. I don't know yet if it can be done but I'm asking the questions. Have you ever seen how the zip seals attach to the inner ring? It is SO EASY! The Waterproof seals are VERY DIFFICULT. It took me 30 minutes on Saturday evening to reinsert one - just one - of the wrist seals. As you slide the wrist ring into the inner ring, it causes the silicone seal to bunch up and it takes a lot of slow, patient, pushing to get it in. And even then, since you can't see it, you don't really know if it bunched up between the two hard rings or not.

The DUI zip seals work like a zip-lock bag that you have in your kitchen. Waterproof markets this suit as being able to quickly replace a damaged seal while on a dive trip, but it isn't that easy...

And the one that I replaced Saturday (that took me 30 min) is the one that leaked the most. Did I install it wrong? I have no way of knowing since there is nothing to see or touch to confirm that it is in correctly.

One other comment...there is absolutely nothing in the owner's user manual on how to change out the seal. I did notice on Saturday that the drysuit outer shell has a wrist seal 'alignment' indicator on it...but guess what - there is no corresponding alignment indicator on the hard ring. So Waterproof could help themselves out some here by providing better documentation.

If you have a Waterproof D1 Hybrid, I would greatly appreciate your response here as to whether or not you are experiencing the same problem. But be prepared - for those of you who are not, I will be asking you questions to find out what you are doing differently from me!!!

 

[KJBond]

have you learned anything new about being able to put the Zip seals on the suit?

 

[phuonguyen]

I've followed your threads regarding the seals, and I have purchased a D1 recently, as I do not believe that the troubles of one customer is a reflection of the entire line.
Have you thought about checking the glue seal between the permanent ring and the trilaminate? As that is not a part of the seal system itself, of which Waterproof found no defect.

 

[NJMike]

The issue is not yet resolved. And I hope that my issue is NOT reflective of the entire line. But I can say that two other divers told me that they had the same issue. I watched one of them wring the water out of his undergarment after a dive. But to be completely fair, I cannot say what caused his issue.

I talked to Waterproof again yesterday. They were supposed to send me another set of the hard wrist rings, overnighted to arrive today but I did not receive them. So I will dive tomorrow with no changes in the suit. After I do get them, I will post again after diving with them.

phyonguyen, have you tried your new suit yet? What was the result? I'm very interested in hearing, and hoping that you might say something that helps resolve my issue.

As far as the inner ring's glue seal, I do not know. All I know for sure is that it was sent to a repair facility who cound NOT duplicate the leaks. If that is the cause, then it means BOTH wrist seals were not glued properly. That's hard to believe but possible, I guess. But why wouldn't that show up in the pressure leak test?

And to repeat something that I'm sure I said earlier, it is not from "tendon channels" as the leak occurred on both wrists WITHOUT inserting my hands all the way into the water!

The engineer from Waterproof was very nice. I just wish that the rings had come in today so that I could have tried them tomorrow.

 

[cbrich]

I got my new waterproof drysuit, and I removed the rings so I could trim the seals for a better fit. I notice the seals had rolled over itself, or pinched. I did not install the seals yet, because I have not found my spray bottle of soapy water solution.

You might try removing the rings, and spray some soapy water on the seals, and re-install.

 

[NJMike]

I'm not sure what soapy water would do in making the seal. Some people use it to help get the seals over wrists but the silicone seals on this suit is so soft and stretchy that I don't think you'll need the soapy water.

I made three dives yesterday and there was no change. Hopefully the new rings will come in today.

---------- Post Merged on August 14th, 2012 at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous Post was on August 13th, 2012 at 02:22 PM ----------

The rings came in today but they were the wrong ones LOL !!!

I am not in any big hurry for them as I don't have an upcoming dive trip to the Arctic so I'm not too bent out of shape over it. Actually, Christian, the Waterproof engineer that I have been talking to, has been very helpful, customer oriented and understanding.

Now, I did not know I got the wrong ones until I opened the box. The rings were of the round variety. The rings in the D1 Hybrid are of the oval shape. I don't really know if and how the round ring system is different from the oval, but I find it very interesting that in the round ring system, one of the rings was soft and flexible and the other one was hard.

On my D1, both rings are hard...which in my mind would make it more difficult to achieve a good seal since neither one can flex to mate better with the other one. I don't know if that makes sense, just saying that I found it interesting.

 

[Deepsea diver]

I'm not sure what soapy water would do in making the seal. Some people use it to help get the seals over wrists but the silicone seals on this suit is so soft and stretchy that I don't think you'll need the soapy water.

I made three dives yesterday and there was no change. Hopefully the new rings will come in today.

---------- Post Merged on August 14th, 2012 at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous Post was on August 13th, 2012 at 02:22 PM ----------

The rings came in today but they were the wrong ones LOL !!!

I am not in any big hurry for them as I don't have an upcoming dive trip to the Arctic so I'm not too bent out of shape over it. Actually, Christian, the Waterproof engineer that I have been talking to, has been very helpful, customer oriented and understanding.

Now, I did not know I got the wrong ones until I opened the box. The rings were of the round variety. The rings in the D1 Hybrid are of the oval shape. I don't really know if and how the round ring system is different from the oval, but I find it very interesting that in the round ring system, one of the rings was soft and flexible and the other one was hard.

On my D1, both rings are hard...which in my mind would make it more difficult to achieve a good seal since neither one can flex to mate better with the other one. I don't know if that makes sense, just saying that I found it interesting.

Hi There,

NJ Mike I have had the same issue with my D1 Hybrid, not sure what to do. Might send it back so they can check the glue seal on the flexible inner wrist seal. Also gonna maybe try the glove seal system. Its a right ball ache, as I love the suit itself, and for the price of it one would expect top of the line. Really sick of getting ripped off. And when I say leak, I mean both cuffs pissing in water. Im a commercial diver and its quite common getting a little wet. I dont mind a wee bit of cuff juice. But if I wanted a wet suit I would have bought won. Waterproof and Si tech need to sort this out. Please??

 

[widou00]

Hi Mike

any update about this issue (wrist seals leaking) ???

Thx

 

[NJMike]

Update: saga continues.

I have mixed emotions about the customer support that I have received. First, as I've stated before, the dive shope where I got it - Lehigh Valley Dive Center - gets a "0" on a scale of 1 - 10.

Waterproof is a different story. Megan has been very helpful. Christian, the engineer, has been very difficult to get on the phone but when I did, he was extremely nice and helpful.

Waterproof has screwed up the shipments several times...sending the wrong wrist seals, then when sending the correct ones they only sent one. But...in the second box with the second wring, they actually sent me the complete Antares dry glove system! So even though the order was messed up (negative), they recovered well and made up for it (positive).

The one thing, though, that is not included in the dry glove system are the gloves themselves. So....dry glove system but no gloves! LOL! I just ordered a pair from DRIS (Dive Right In Scuba) who is one of the best (maybe THE best) customer service shops I have ever used.

The replacement hard wrist rings did not solve the issue, although they appeared to be manufactured noticeably different from the original ones that came with the suit. The grooves and ridges on the rings were totally different. But again, no change in the water leakage.

Here's my next two plans: the hard rings that come with the Si-Tech Antares glove system are totally different from the last set of rings. This was not unexpected as it is designed for a different purpose. But since you still used the wrist seals with the dry glove system, I will try the new rings WITHOUT the dry gloves themselves to see if that fixes the problem.

If it does not, the second plan is to then put the gloves on and try it that way.

So that should come in another couple weeks or so. I will update the thread after those tests.