Death in Cocos from shark attack

[drrich2]

I wouldn't be that impressed with that C.V.

And this speaks to a long-running concern that applies to the recreational diving hobby generally; whose responsibility is it to access prospective customer suitability for the diving at hand? Is it the dive op., or the customer?

No commercial dive op. is likely to pack their website and marketing materials with dire warnings about the terrible things that could happen to their customers. If you've got competitors, but your site is the only one that basically says 'You're liable to get killed diving with us,' that's not going to be good marketing. It's all the more an issue when you try to base the decision on certification level; there are divers with hundreds of dives and OW, not AOW, and yet we read accounts of dive professionals alleged to be lacking in skill. Minimums are just that, minimums. Not everyone who meets the minimum is a good candidate for those conditions. Also consider that a dive live-aboard operator is not the customer's only source of info. on the destination.

Given the investment in time and money, and the reputation of 'not so easy' diving Cocos has, I think it's reasonable to expect customers to do their homework on this destination.

If we were talking about an op. catering to cruise ship vacation divers with few & far between dives, often fresh out of OW training, that might be a different story.

Richard.

 

[InTheDrink]

I've only been there once and all of the divers on our boat were very experienced. It is not the place for a new, inexperienced diver who cannot take care of themselves. Everyone going knows this and they are only there for the sharks.

Been a fair while since I was there on Sea Hunter but we did have a couple of people who maybe shouldn’t have been because of their experience level. The crew and guides were excellent tho. I think when I was there was around first time Tigers showed up altho we missed them. But definitely this is a place where people come to dive with sharks and the risks are accepted - depth, PPO2 levels, currents & sharks. All part of the risk mix.

 

[InTheDrink]

Regarding marketing - there is clearly a rush to the bottom. I’ve been diving liveaboards in Egypt for years and done a bit of guiding on them too and some of the divers simply should not have been there and in fairness to our chief guide she refused to guide those who she thought would be in danger.

There was an issue a few weeks ago where an idiot decided to try to swim to another boat to meet some hot chicks at one of the outer reefs (6-8 hours from land) at lunch time and without fins and with obvious Oceanic Whitetips in the water. Unsurprisingly he didn’t make it, held on to a rope between the boats and was lucky to only get 70 stitches after an oceanic nibbled his ankle as he was being rescued by a zodiac. Definitely a Darwin candidate.

RIP the the poor girl that was taken by this Tiger tho. Absent facts sounds like was just poor luck with terrible outcome. Diving with sharks is fun but it does come with risks, especially the major 4.

 

[Wookie]

And this speaks to a long-running concern that applies to the recreational diving hobby generally; whose responsibility is it to access prospective customer suitability for the diving at hand? Is it the dive op., or the customer?

Richard.

And what is a dive op to do? If you require an advanced cert, you imply a diver with an advanced cert is somehow safer than one without. If you warn the divers that there are sharks in the water, aren't the divers there because there are sharks in the water?

All you can do is offer your release before they pay, and have the diver release you for encountering said sharks. The release is warning that there are the same dangers in diving today that you were taught in open water class.

 

[InTheDrink]

And what is a dive op to do? If you require an advanced cert, you imply a diver with an advanced cert is somehow safer than one without. If you warn the divers that there are sharks in the water, aren't the divers there because there are sharks in the water?

All you can do is offer your release before they pay, and have the diver release you for encountering said sharks. The release is warning that there are the same dangers in diving today that you were taught in open water class.

I’m going to contradict myself a little here as I’m with you in general but for PADI at least OW gives you max depth 18m. Therefore OW unless with deep cert isn’t appropriate for diving Cocos. In Egypt the level of qualification/dives has been steadily dropping and have had divers with 11 dives on trips that used to require 50 min. I think the risks are explicit enough in the places I’ve been but I do think Ops should vet a little more (like they used to) and make a better effort at making sure the divers are up to the sites they’ll be diving. In fairness to everyone. Categorically not saying this was the case with the situation at Cocos, just a general observation

 

[Wookie]

I’m going to contradict myself a little here as I’m with you in general but for PADI at least OW gives you max depth 18m. Therefore OW unless with deep cert isn’t appropriate for diving Cocos. In Egypt the level of qualification/dives has been steadily dropping and have had divers with 11 dives on trips that used to require 50 min. I think the risks are explicit enough in the places I’ve been but I do think Ops should vet a little more (like they used to) and make a better effort at making sure the divers are up to the sites they’ll be diving. In fairness to everyone. Categorically not saying this was the case with the situation at Cocos, just a general observation

Except the OW cert certifies you to 130 feet/40 meters. The 18 meter 'limit' is merely a recommendation and marketing tool. But that's another topic for another thread.

 

[InTheDrink]

Except the OW cert certifies you to 130 feet/40 meters. The 18 meter 'limit' is merely a recommendation and marketing tool. But that's another topic for another thread.

Agreee, for another thread. Out here tho OW is 18m. AOW 30. Deep speciality 40m. And them’s the rules with ops I’ve dived with. So not just a marketing tool also an operational tool. But yes you’re right. For another thread.

 

[dmaziuk]

Agreee, for another thread. Out here tho OW is 18m. AOW 30. Deep speciality 40m. And them’s the rules with ops I’ve dived with. So not just a marketing tool also an operational tool. But yes you’re right. For another thread.

For another thread: I've a feeling it would take a tool to demand PADI AOW to 30 and PADI Deep to 40.

 

[WetPup]

Some seasoned, capable divers ‘only’ have an OW cert. Given the time and cost commitment, I suspect the large majority of Cocos divers are fairly seasoned and should know to do a little research.

That said, those of you who’ve done a Cocos trip, have you seen a ‘green’ customer? Just how inexperienced are some of the customers?

Richard.

I had the instabuddy from hell. He was in Costa Rica for a science conference, and was desperate to get on the trip. I had booked the last available cabin and there was a spare space. They called me up and asked if I (female) would be willing to share the cabin with a guy. They figured that since I was also a scientist we should get along. The fact he was a guy didn't really bother me as such, but apparently he was quite pushy with the dive operator about trying to get on the trip (ringing multiple times a day to ask about possible cancellations).

Anyway, turns out that we got buddied together. He claimed to have the minimum 50 logged dives that the lob requested at the time. After the first dive of the trip I was pretty dubious. Not going to get into details, but I reamed him out. The trip director/dive manager reamed him out once I explained what happened. He later admitted that he'd lied to get on the trip and that he only had about 25 dives (including his OW and AOW cert dives). He was totally ill prepared for the conditions, had never been in a strong current, was unfamiliar with drift diving, didn't know how to use an smb...

People want to dive these bucket list destinations, I get that. But I put that trip to Cocos off for a very long time because I wanted to be sure I'd be comfortable in the conditions. I worked up to it. Others aren't always so patient. The consequence was that my dive buddy put me in a dangerous situation, and I thankfully had enough experience to get myself out of it, but if he'd been buddied up with a less experienced person, that situation may not have ended quite as well.

 

[drrich2]

What you describe shows the hole in putting the onus on the staff to decide who dives; some OW divers may have hundreds of dives and fine capability. The guy you described had an Advanced OW cert. (probably had the card on him), and lied about his dive count.

Sometimes it seems to me as a society the U.S. is so used to having 'excursions' so micromanaged, and anything hazardous forbidden, that it's easy to assume if something is offered to the general public, then in terms of risk it shouldn't be much more dangerous or demanding than a cruise ship excursion. If it weren't safe, they wouldn't let me do it. 'They' are supposed to keep me safe.

I don't think that mindset is a good match from what I've read of diving around Cocos Island. It's not unique in that regard.

Richard.