Deciding on BCD or Backplate/Wing

[Dredgy]

Hey all, at about 60 logged dives, certified in June. I bought all my own equipment and then promptly lost a metric tonne of weight while travelling and my BCD is too big so time to replace. I’ve been around to the dive stores here and tried every BCD, and found one I love, a couple I really like and an introductory backplate/wing.

I currently have a Cressi Ultralight BCD in large - and I’m now a small to medium in size. I liked the BCD and found it comfortable and would probably be happy in just a smaller size. However it was a bit flimsy and I lost a few cloth rings on it and pulling the hose to dump air once resulted in me pulling the hose right off.

I’ve narrowed down my choices to the Aqualung Dimension (just as easily manageable as the cressi with creature comforts such as trim weights) and the Mares XR - preassembled backplate, wing and harness. The Apeks Black Ice also gets an honourable mention but didn’t find it as comfortable as the Aqua Lung. But it can be adapted to twins so gives me the best of both worlds.

My Physical Limitations

• I am generally a fit person but I have terrible hand-eye coordination and poor dexterity in my hands. This makes things like tightening straps, donning weight belts etc extremely difficult for me. I’m working on it but to give you an idea tying shoelaces is an ordeal.

The Type Of Diving I’m Doing and Plan to Do

• I live on the southern Great Barrier Reef. So warm water, shallow dives on tropical reefs are my jam at home, however there’s no actual dive operator where I live and I have no buddies so it’s not something I’m able to do every day. But working to change that.
• I’ve actually dived more in Africa than I have at home, I’ve done lots of tropical diving in Mozambique and Comoros as well as cold water diving in Cape Town and freshwater/altitude diving in Lake Malawi.
• I plan to keep mainly diving shallow, tropical reefs because I can simply stay down longer and I find the dives more interesting.
• That said, there’s a lot of stuff I plan on trying. Next year I intend to do specialties in drysuit, ice diving and sidemount diving. I have little interest in pursuing these for the sake of improving my dive life, but I just find the equipment and set up fascinating. I also would like to try twins as well and maybe make that my usual setup (as I see I have trouble with things like tightening a tank strap, especially on a boat that’s rocking, so being able to set up two tanks at home before I go is hugely appealing to me).
• I have a lot of interest in the technical equipment of diving. However I have little interest in actual technical diving ( extreme depths, shipwrecks etc. don’t do a lot for me).

Why I’d like to use a BCD

• Easy to put on an adjust depending on brand.
• I find them comfortable
• Integrated weights (like I said, weight belts are difficult for me).

Why I’d like to use a BP/W

• Configuration options. Twins, sidemount, singles, whatever.
• Comfort. While I haven’t tried diving in it, in store the Mares XR felt like I was wearing nothing at all.

Why I’d would not like to use a BCD

• Limited options when it comes to twin cylinders or sidemount. Perhaps I’m just looking at the wrong brands.
• Price. At the high end, BCDs are very expensive compared to introductory backplate.

Why I’d not like to use a BP/W

• Fiddly. I couldn’t a shoulder strap on the XR as tight as I wanted it (shop assistant couldn’t figure it out either). But having to adjust harnesses or components regularly is a nightmare for me.
• Lack of integrated weights. Whilst I do have a moderately comfortable weight belt that I can put on empty and just load weights into the pockets, I still have trouble getting a weight belt on and greatly prefer having pockets on my buoyancy device. So open to suggestions on how to best do that.

Not really sure what my question is, but what would you do? Any BCD or backplate recommendations? Particularly interested in thoughts on putting weights onto backplates, or getting twins/sidemount onto a BCD.

thanks all, can’t wait to hear from you!

 

[Saniflush]

You are going to get answers all over the board on this. The real short answer is whatever you like best is what you should dive.

I started out in a BCD and have no problems diving one now. In the beginning they are easier to adjust because they are sized by the manufacturer so as long as they generally fit the person you can crank down on the straps and make it as snug as you like or don't like.

I am now in a BP/W and it is what I prefer to dive with. One of the biggest pluses to harnesses is that they are modular. You can add integrated weight pockets to them if you like. I do not need them for the weight but felt like since I sometimes teach in my BP/W that I should have them on my rig so they more closely resembled what most of my students would have on their BCD.

It takes more time on the front end to get all the harnesses adjusted exactly like you like them but once you have gotten through that, I have found no reason to go back in and readjust them. You may want to get the thought out of your head about using a single tank rig for doubles/twins. I had the same thought when I was trying to decide what to get and others on here will tell you that I asked a lot of dumb questions in regard to that. Could you use one rig to dive all these different setups? Sure you can, but that will require breaking it down and putting it back together for different setups. Some folks would be fine with that but I feel like most do not. They have completely separate rigs for the types of diving they are doing.

The folks around here that do drysuit and ice diving probably will have a lot more insight into what you may need/want. Hope you find what you are looking for!

 

[seaseadee]

Perhaps if you go with a BP/W with basic one-piece harness, you would have the least amount of fiddling around to do when donning and doffing? Once you have assembled and adjusted the kit, you usually don’t tighten or loosen the straps. You rig it loose and use the crotch strap to keep it in place. It takes a bit of getting used to because most people who are used to standard BCD’s think that they should be tightening something down somewhere or else it’s not secure.

 

[Neilwood]

Hey all, at about 60 logged dives, certified in June. I bought all my own equipment and then promptly lost a metric tonne of weight while travelling and my BCD is too big so time to replace. I’ve been around to the dive stores here and tried every BCD, and found one I love, a couple I really like and an introductory backplate/wing.
I currently have a Cressi Ultralight BCD in large - and I’m now a small to medium in size. I liked the BCD and found it comfortable and would probably be happy in just a smaller size. However it was a bit flimsy and I lost a few cloth rings on it and pulling the hose to dump air once resulted in me pulling the hose right off.
I’ve narrowed down my choices to the Aqualung Dimension (just as easily manageable as the cressi with creature comforts such as trim weights) and the Mares XR - preassembled backplate, wing and harness. The Apeks Black Ice also gets an honourable mention but didn’t find it as comfortable as the Aqua Lung. But it can be adapted to twins so gives me the best of both worlds.
My Physical Limitations

• I am generally a fit person but I have terrible hand-eye coordination and poor dexterity in my hands. This makes things like tightening straps, donning weight belts etc extremely difficult for me. I’m working on it but to give you an idea tying shoelaces is an ordeal.

The Type Of Diving I’m Doing and Plan to Do
I live on the southern Great Barrier Reef. So warm water, shallow dives on tropical reefs are my jam at home, however there’s no actual dive operator where I live and I have no buddies so it’s not something I’m able to do every day. But working to change that.

• I’ve actually dived more in Africa than I have at home, I’ve done lots of tropical diving in Mozambique and Comoros as well as cold water diving in Cape Town and freshwater/altitude diving in Lake Malawi.
• I plan to keep mainly diving shallow, tropical reefs because I can simply stay down longer and I find the dives more interesting.
• That said, there’s a lot of stuff I plan on trying. Next year I intend to do specialties in drysuit, ice diving and sidemount diving. I have little interest in pursuing these for the sake of improving my dive life, but I just find the equipment and set up fascinating. I also would like to try twins as well and maybe make that my usual setup (as I see I have trouble with things like tightening a tank strap, especially on a boat that’s rocking, so being able to set up two tanks at home before I go is hugely appealing to me).
• I have a lot of interest in the technical equipment of diving. However I have little interest in actual technical diving ( extreme depths, shipwrecks etc. don’t do a lot for me).
• Why I’d like to use a BCD

• Easy to put on an adjust depending on brand.
• I find them comfortable
• Integrated weights (like I said, weight belts are difficult for me).

Why I’d like to use a BP/W

• Configuration options. Twins, sidemount, singles, whatever.
• Comfort. While I haven’t tried diving in it, in store the Mares XR felt like I was wearing nothing at all.

Why I’d would not like to use a BCD

• Limited options when it comes to twin cylinders or sidemount. Perhaps I’m just looking at the wrong brands.
• Price. At the high end, BCDs are very expensive compared to introductory backplate.

Why I’d not like to use a BP/W

• Fiddly. I couldn’t a shoulder strap on the XR as tight as I wanted it (shop assistant couldn’t figure it out either). But having to adjust harnesses or components regularly is a nightmare for me.
• Lack of integrated weights. Whilst I do have a moderately comfortable weight belt that I can put on empty and just load weights into the pockets, I still have trouble getting a weight belt on and greatly prefer having pockets on my buoyancy device. So open to suggestions on how to best do that.

Not really sure what my question is, but what would you do? Any BCD or backplate recommendations? Particularly interested in thoughts on putting weights onto backplates, or getting twins/sidemount onto a BCD.

thanks all, can’t wait to hear from you!

I would note that there is no one BCD/BP&W that will do everything perfectly. That said I think the BP&W comes pretty damn close.

Reasons why for a BP&W:
1) can be set up for various configurations with minimal adjustment. Harnesses are supposed to be loose (should easily be able to put a fist between the harness and shoulder) which allows the same harness to be used with rash vest, wetsuit or drysuit.
2) Choice of backplates and wings allows better weighting options. Steel backplate for when more weight is needed (drysuit, thick wetsuit), aluminium for warm water with a thin suit/rash vest, Kydex/plastic/carbon fibre for travel. Similar for wings - you can have different ones depending on the amount of lift required. Small for travel/thin suit, larger for doubles/cold water.
3) Setting a backplate up for doubles is easy - they simply bolt on to the slots in the plate (most plates have standard length slots meaning placement should be the same irrespective of who supplied the plate.
4) Because the harness is set up loose, you can keep your gear in fixed places on the harness. I never move mine between diving at home (drysuit) or rash vest.
5) The waist & crotch strap are what keeps the BP&W located not the shoulder straps.
6) If anything breaks on a BP&W, you simply change the component. Fraying harness - buy and thread a new one. Problem with the wing - switch it out with another.
7) Weight pockets are available for use on harnesses as well as options to fit weight to the plate itself.
8) A lot of BP&W set ups have different tank strap set ups compared to the standard found on most BCDs. The one on mine has two "super cinch" type as per the link. You adjust for different tanks via the velcro section on the non cinch side (getting it close enough that when the cinch is done up that it will be tight) and just use the cinch to close it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wiMg0JJ9Yg

If you are getting a BP&W, it is worth bearing in mind that you might spend a reasonable time getting it right with regards to Drings/ harness length etc on land and in the water but once it is there it never changes unless you do it. A jacket type BCD you normally put it on, clip the belt etc and then cinch the straps tight - with a BP&W everything is set up first so all you do is feed the crotch strap in and do the waist belt.

 

[Jayfarmlaw]

I'd suggest that you beg, borrow, or steal a BP/W and dive it. If you are buying local, I'm sure the shop has staff with a BP/W that may let you take for a pool dip for a bit. You will likely see that the amount of weight you need will be several pounds less and possibly none depending on which wetsuit you are diving. I can dive zero weight if I'm just in a skin, 4 pounds with a 3 mil, I need 8-10 in my jacket type bcd. As far as adjusting, they are a pain in the ass to get set up at first, but then, they are faster to get on than a jacket type and are set forever.

Look at the buckle on the waist band. If you have poor hand eye coordination, there is a narrow slit that the belt has to be fed through, then the buckle folds over to cinch it down. That could be an issue for you, but there are quick click style buckles that could be used instead. I actually like that idea. I don't like anything tight on my rig, just enough to keep it on as I walk to the edge to drop in. Once in the water, it's almost like nothing is there at all.

To throw another option at you, you might consider a Dive Right Transpac or similar soft plate. My Transpac is generally my goto rig. It's just more comfortable and It retains the versatility of a plate and harness. It travels a little easier too.

Good luck, safe travels, pet a kangaroo for me!

Jay

 

[FreeFlyFreak]

Personally I would avoid the Aqualung.
Those clip in weights are renound for coming un clipped and falling out.
My girlfriend lost 5lbs on a dive because of an Aqualung clip in, it was clipped in properly pre dive.

 

[dmaziuk]

Particularly interested in thoughts on putting weights onto backplates ...

How much weight?

I've a steel plate w/ 2 trim pockets on the top camband, that's all I need in warm water. I also have an Al plate where I used to put (the same) trim pockets on shoulder straps: with more weight in 'em that's more comfortable in horizontal trim. But they do get in the way a little then.

I very rarely dive locally in a 7 mm suit, then I need a belt and/or a weight pocket on the plate. I've one of these: XS Scuba V Weight Pouch -- it doesn't work too well on my Freedom Plate but still I can get some 3-4 lbs in it. It's really designed for the twins, there you should be able to fill it up to its stated 7 lbs.

None of it is really ditchable but since I can swim around holding a diving brick in each hand, I'm not too concerned about that. YMMV of course. The above is with Al80, with a heavy steel tank I wouldn't need any lead at all in warm water.

And also, BP&W is held in place by the waist and crotch straps. Shoulder straps need are fairly loose, no need to tighten them.

 

[lexvil]

Just a minor point, if you had started with a BP/W you be asking the question.

 

[Dredgy]

You may want to get the thought out of your head about using a single tank rig for doubles/twins. I had the same thought when I was trying to decide what to get and others on here will tell you that I asked a lot of dumb questions in regard to that. Could you use one rig to dive all these different setups? Sure you can, but that will require breaking it down and putting it back together for different setups. Some folks would be fine with that but I feel like most do not. They have completely separate rigs for the types of diving they are doing. !

This is fair advice, and separate rigs indeed didn’t really occur to me.
My thought was not to use the two interchangeably but to be able to have an upgrade path. For instance if I went the BP/W, I’d have it set up for single tank, but if I decide I want to go doubles, then I can get a bigger wing and upgrade that way. For sidemount diving, I plan to do the PADI specialty and learn how to do it, but basically do it as a one off (unless I really like it)

Perhaps if you go with a BP/W with basic one-piece harness, you would have the least amount of fiddling around to do when donning and doffing? Once you have assembled and adjusted the kit, you usually don’t tighten or loosen the straps. You rig it loose and use the crotch strap to keep it in place. It takes a bit of getting used to because most people who are used to standard BCD’s think that they should be tightening something down somewhere or else it’s not secure.

That is indeed a little counterintuitive. The shop assistant I was talking to never dived using BPW and wasn’t sure how to tighten it. I really think I’d need to dive in it.

I would note that there is no one BCD/BP&W that will do everything perfectly. That said I think the BP&W comes pretty damn close.

Reasons why for a BP&W:
5) The waist & crotch strap are what keeps the BP&W located not the shoulder straps.
.

Lots of good advice and you makes a compelling argument. Knowing point 5 I’m going to try it on again.

I'd suggest that you beg, borrow, or steal a BP/W and dive it. If you are buying local, I'm sure the shop has staff with a BP/W that may let you take for a pool dip for a bit. You will likely see that the amount of weight you need will be several pounds less and possibly none depending on which wetsuit you are diving. I can dive zero weight if I'm just in a skin, 4 pounds with a 3 mil, I need 8-10 in my jacket type bcd. As far as adjusting, they are a pain in the ass to get set up at first, but then, they are faster to get on than a jacket type and are set forever.

Look at the buckle on the waist band. If you have poor hand eye coordination, there is a narrow slit that the belt has to be fed through, then the buckle folds over to cinch it down. That could be an issue for you, but there are quick click style buckles that could be used instead. I actually like that idea. I don't like anything tight on my rig, just enough to keep it on as I walk to the edge to drop in. Once in the water, it's almost like nothing is there at all.

To throw another option at you, you might consider a Dive Right Transpac or similar soft plate. My Transpac is generally my goto rig. It's just more comfortable and It retains the versatility of a plate and harness. It travels a little easier too.

Good luck, safe travels, pet a kangaroo for me!

Jay

Apart from the kangaroo that tried to maul me when I went to pet it, lots of good advice there.
The slot was indeed a problem for me trying it on (nothing too drastic but it’s the same reason I don’t like weight belts). Good to know it can be swapped out.

I’ll be honest, I could go with quite a bulky setup before it limits my travel, scuba gear was a lot easier to travel with than I planned.

Actually being able to try one in the water is going to be easier said than done.

Personally I would avoid the Aqualung.
Those clip in weights are renound for coming un clipped and falling out.
My girlfriend lost 5lbs on a dive because of an Aqualung clip in, it was clipped in properly pre dive.

While I’ve no experience with the Aqualung itself, I’ve had no problems with other clip in weights.

How much weight?

I've a steel plate w/ 2 trim pockets on the top camband, that's all I need in warm water. I also have an Al plate where I used to put (the same) trim pockets on shoulder straps: with more weight in 'em that's more comfortable in horizontal trim. But they do get in the way a little then.

I very rarely dive locally in a 7 mm suit, then I need a belt and/or a weight pocket on the plate. I've one of these: XS Scuba V Weight Pouch -- it doesn't work too well on my Freedom Plate but still I can get some 3-4 lbs in it. It's really designed for the twins, there you should be able to fill it up to its stated 7 lbs.

None of it is really ditchable but since I can swim around holding a diving brick in each hand, I'm not too concerned about that. YMMV of course. The above is with Al80, with a heavy steel tank I wouldn't need any lead at all in warm water.

And also, BP&W is held in place by the waist and crotch straps. Shoulder straps need are fairly loose, no need to tighten them.

Great, thank you!

In warm water, I dive with 4kg of weight on a 5mm suit. Can probably drop down to 3 as I replace more far with muscle. I’m in the market for my first cylinder too, and will likely be getting a compact 12L steel which should be nice and negative. Aluminium tanks aren’t really available here and I don’t think I’ve ever used one.

I don’t need weights to be ditchable, but I like them in pockets so that I can adjust. I used 11kg of weight in Cape Town on a 9mm suit + hoodies + boots (and think that was overweight but my body was stressed out at the cold!). Basically because all of my diving has been travelling (and I’ve been renting suits) it’s rare I’ve had the same type of diving two days in a row.

If it’s possible to dive in tropics with no weight, then that would be a godsend.


after all this, I’m definitely leaning towards the backpack (and initial purchase cost is cheaper), but I’d definitely like to try it in the water first!

 

[dmaziuk]

In warm water, I dive with 4kg of weight on a 5mm suit. Can probably drop down to 3 as I replace more far with muscle. I’m in the market for my first cylinder too, and will likely be getting a compact 12L steel which should be nice and negative. Aluminium tanks aren’t really available here and I don’t think I’ve ever used one.

I don’t need weights to be ditchable, but I like them in pockets so that I can adjust. I used 11kg of weight in Cape Town on a 9mm suit + hoodies + boots (and think that was overweight but my body was stressed out at the cold!). Basically because all of my diving has been travelling (and I’ve been renting suits) it’s rare I’ve had the same type of diving two days in a row.

If it’s possible to dive in tropics with no weight, then that would be a godsend.

These: DGX Trim Weight Pocket (each) | Dive Gear Express® take a 4 lb (~= 2 kg) bricks and you could probably squeeze in a 5 lb w/ rounded edges if you tried hard enough. 2 on the camband will take the 4 kg you need. I have mine on top band and that placement is good enough for trim. I expect a local equivalent is available.

Steel backplate will spread its weight over your back, unlike a jacket with weight pockets that keep the weight at your waist. Typically adjustment is less of a concern then, and it only takes a bit of weight up high to put you in proper trim. (Alu backplate is not as good in that Alu is less dense than steel and so is more "floaty" in the water: you'll need more lead and its placement becomes more of an issue.)

So if you had a 2 kg steel backplate and 2x1kg weights in trim pockets, that's your 4 kilos. In theory: IRL you'd want to take that for a test drive first, of course.