Depth Limits for SSI OW Cert?

[SC_Hoaty]

Hey John,

Several Key Largo operators require AOW or recent deep dive experience (2 or more dives deeper than 80 feet in the last year or similar) in order to dive on the Spiegel Grove or the Duane. I would imagine other Florida operators may have similar criteria for deeper dives. I would call ahead to avoid disappointment.

These 2 dives in Key Largo are a piece of cake with little current and good vis, under other circumstances, these dives can be quite challenging, even for the reasonably experienced. I'd seriously consider whether dives like this are right for someone directly out of intitial certification.

Good diving, Craig

Some of them require AOW AND recent deep dive experience. If not, you need to hire an instructor. I went with a group organized by an instructor, so he signed on my form as my instructor. I have since completed the AOW, including Deep Diving as one of the specialties. Another shop on the SC coast looked at my SSI OW card and was happy to let me join them on a dive to 88 feet. Thus, the advice to call ahead is right on.

If you choose to dive the Keys, there is an awful lot to see in less that 40 feet of water. Lots of fun, and a great way to build experience.

Have fun, keep learning, and stay safe!

 

[scubawheels]

Deep diving is considered 60 and below, but the recreational dive limits are 130 feet. As far as I've ever understood, that is our limit. I'm not saying you can jump in and hit 130' as a new diver, but that is the true limit in my opinion. Take specialty classes and dive whenever you get a chance. The more experiences the better the diver, typically.

As for trips and dive charters' requirements, why not make the phone call? Then you can ready for the dive with less stress and the entire experince will be better.

 

[Piccola]

I actually contacted BC/BS to get a better explaination on coverage in the event of a dive accident a few years ago. You are covered for accidents BUT dive accidents more often than not would requir different medical care, primarily the need for a DCS chamber. I do not think BC/BS will cover the cost of it but DAN will. I have BC/BS but opted to get additional dive specific coverage through DAN as I wanted the best possible outcome in the event that I needed it (hopefully I will never).

 

[OkByMe]

I've been diving safely since 1967, on all kinds of dives, wreck, cave - cavern, wall and spear fishing - from boats and from shore. I did not do any of it until I was ready, had the proper equipment and knew how to use it. I dove with people who were more experienced, who looked out for me, I dove with people who were less experienced and I looked out for them. That is the way it is done. If you follow this safe, progressive method, you should be fine.

I did not need a dive from a boat certification, or a deep (130'AIR) dive certification, or a wreck dive certification, or a cavern dive certification and so on. All I needed was the money. NITROX is about the only thing they can justify since it changes the dive parameters.

I had to finally get a C card to buy air, because they eventually locked that up. (SSI OW certification in 1988), then Nitrox certification to buy better air, because they locked that up. That is all I need from a LDS or dive operator besides the occasional VIP. I have had a problem or 2 with some boats, I at least have a log book to throw around. You may have a problem until you accumulate some extended dives or pay the LDS to take you diving for AOW. Make sure your best dives are documented or your ability to dive will be in the hands of Mom.

But the way the business is becoming all "lawyer-ed up" and the LDS is positioned to benefit by it, I would not be surprised to find them all staging dive certifications - dive shops trying to lockup a revenue source by creating a multi-level tier, is already being done. I'm an adult, In fact an old adult, I make my decisions - know my limits and understand the responsibility. Anyone who does not know that, 4 or 5 hours in a classroom and 5 dives from a boat won't keep'em safe.

Changing the rules in the middle of the game.

 

[jscott099]

I agree with you OkByMe. Then again we live in a litigious society and part of the cost of doing business is protecting oneself against claims by those who felt you were negligent.

As far as the training tiers. Yep, they are. I don't blame them. As long as folks are willing to pay for it, then they will offer them and market them. The consumer has a choice to opt out.

For me, the wise spending was OW then AOW and Nitrox. It was years later before I ever opted for any additional training and that was not until I was going down the instructor path.

 

[Piccola]

I just went around on this very issue. I am planning a dive where the site 'requires' deep diver certification, yes the cert card-no console or logbook proof of experience . I assumed that being a OW, AOW, Rescue, and now Master Diver I could go to depths within recreation limits (130'). I actually called Padi and asked them. To my surprise with the training I have noted, the limit is 100'. I looked through all of my course books again and it is a grey area which is why I called Padi. I mistakedly always assumed I was certified to recreation limits (130') assuming I feel comfortable going there.
The deep diver certification can be demanded for any sites below 100'. And I know when I was in florida, they wanted to see the AOW for sites like the Duane/Speigal grove.

 

[OkByMe]

I have been watching this happen for years. Marketing has taken over the industry, tightening the screws until they get deeper into your wallet. I have managed to avoid the issue by private charter. Now governments are getting into the act like the Bahamas, they are severely limiting private diving, The US park service is doing the same. So now I see on public boats, people who seem to be confused about what they can do by decree rather than what they can do by skill and experience.

 

[milkmood]

Your OW cert allows you to dive to whatever depth you choose to (the bottom of the ocean if you survive). You are a grown up, you have to make the decision. Now to reality. You are also told that you should be diving in conditions similar to those you were trained in until you gain more experience and/or additional training. One of the primary reasons for initially limiting your maximum depth is the potential for nitrogen narcosis. Dive operators have a right to require whatever they please for diving with them. The last thing they want is an inexperienced diver, with no wreck diving experience, nor deep diving experience causing some sort of problem and offing themselves and a possibly a buddy as well. There is no guarantee that on the NC coast, where I have taught and dove for years, that requiring an AOW cert, deep and wreck specialties, and at least a few deep dives experiences will prevent a catastrophe, but it does lessen the likelihood some. Give yourself some time to have fun with your new cert and gain some experience so when you do go into the deep end, it will also be fun and less stressful.

I think jscott pretty much sums it up here. There really is no hard limit set by any certification that I know of, but if you want to live to dive another day:

always always always dive within your comfort zone and common sense
never never never let anybody pressure you into going beyond that
always always always mind the mathematics of diving with regard to gas consumption, nitrogen absorption, and time limitations and requirements.

Take a minute or two to practice a skill from your certifications on every dive. And have fun!

 

[Piccola]

I hate to be the voice of disagreement BUT, I disagree that your OW cert allows you to dive wherever you want in certain situations. You will find many dive operators will want to see cert levels in addidion to proof of experience. You may be a very experienced deep diver who has been refused boarding on a boat heading to a deep site while an AOW diver with little experience will be waved through. I am not saying that I agree with this but it is a fact. I have done a considerable amount of research for dive planning and these are the rules I have found and wanted to pass on here.

 

[OkByMe]

I misquoted myself in a previous post... SSI OW 1978, not 88. Maybe there is some justification for changing the rules of instruction after all these years other than trying to create additional revenue for the LDS. The only one I can think of is that maybe people were smarter back then and I know were a little more ballsy. The equipment was somewhat primitive compared to that used today and all the while the conditions remain the same, so that has to be it! Big, big safety margin. Smart and ballsy - opportunity... dumb and ballsy - funeral procession... smart and timid - not much fun... dumb and timid - sell your gear and take up golf.

Seriously... are some people so overwhelmed with trying to manage just 4 things while in the drink, that they have to have all the hand holding? All that aside, I have some pertinent info..

I just came back from a 2 week stay in the keys - Largo and West. At Largo, I dove with Ocean Divers and they were great. 2 big boats, dive shop and boats at the marina, a parking lot with plenty of parking next to the boats. A safe operation and you can dive your profile - but no decompression. They don't provide safety stop stage, so if you want the extra margin, you'll have to pony. They rig a surface granny and tag for the little bit of current. All I had to do to dive on the 2 deep wrecks was show them my computer log and OW C-card. The deepest I went was about 95' for a short to swim to the weather deck where a few big honkin Groupers were hanging out in a hatch-less passageway. Both the Spiegle Grove and Duane can be interesting 60' dives. Visibility was good enough to see the sand from time to time. Big Bulls come and go around the Duane. For the reefs - ask to go to the south end of molasses. That is where all the livestock swim through the coral finger banks. French had too much silt and further North, like Christ of the deep, is pretty beat up.

Key West Divers had me fill out a 10 dive log sheet along with the OW SSI C-card. They don't rig stage ether and run a sub surface 15' granny from the anchor line. it is needed because of the current - pretty bad on the Vandenburg, it will blow you off the wreck if you don't tether or hold. No decompression. The dive is guided and in teams of 4, boat carries about 12-15. The guide carries a pony. Not a novice dive. Most of the upper structure is pretty close to the surface... it also can be a good 60'- 80' dive. I did not have much fun with it since I spent the dive ducking behind bulkheads and holding on. I came up the smokestack down-current and when I cleared the top, it almost blew my mask off. If you want to hang around in the Antennas, you will have to go to about 80' swimming along a bulkhead and ascend to the framework and pull yourself along. The dive is an air-burner, so you might want to pony up that one too. Good swim throughs. Safety stop on the anchor line had me flapping like a flag in the wind! The reefs are pretty good, lots of coral finger, but the visibility could have been better. The only problem with Key West divers is that they are inconvenient. You setup your gear in front of the shop and they pack it in a pickup to the boat, then you drive to the marina. Kind of messed up my pre-dive ritual I have established over the years. After the dive, you can pack your gear, but no place to rinse it, unless you go back to their shop.

I don't like that. I also don't like having my gear out of sight or handled by someone else. I still have in use, a US Divers calypso 4 and Aquarius regulators on 2 of my stages. These dudes are over 30 years old and work flawlessly because I re-build them and take care of them. Don't ask to borrow my Rods or tackle ether.