Did instructors teach inhaling from BC long time ago?

[Sam Miller III]

Dang Hombre you are also up early and have already posted my thoughts.

There were two manufactures, as I recall, that produced an inflation system that used a separate small air bottle for inflation. The pictured Bouee Fenzy and the Nimrod.

Both units were designed to be filled from a SCUBA tank I recall that one of the unit's HP cylinder did not have ANY markings and was soon recalled from the US market place

Neither one was particularly popular with west coast divers due to bulk

Sam Miller, 111

 

[Akimbo]

Hi @Akimbo

What year was this? Pretty expensive at $125, wonder what that would be today?

I got mine in 1969 as a gift but we knew about them for a year or two before. That price would be over $850 today in inflation adjusted dollars but it was perceived as even more expensive than that since we were comparing it to zero. Almost nobody in my sphere of visibility wore Mae Wests by then.

This vest was an amazingly generous gift to me from the guy who first imported them into the US. It just showed up in the mail about a week after I met him with a note that something like "I thought you could use this". I wish I still had that note even more than the Fenzy itself. I was just a high school kid about to join the Navy. I met him on the same trip to San Diego where I met Bev Morgan described in this Bio.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

It was taught in my PADI course in 1985, but that was a semester long college course where a lot of things were taught well beyond the PADI OW curriculum, so it probably said more about the instructor and the time available for the class than it did the PADI standards at the time.

Lung infection is certainly a risk, but it's not that much different than the counter lungs on some rebreathers where they are not all that open or easy to dry. Back in the day a Listerine rinse was in order after each dive day as BC maintenance if you planned on "bag breathing" as an ascent option. Steramine however should work just as well on a BC as it does on a rebreather counter lungs and hoses - just leave the OPV and inflator elbow off with the BC fluffed so it can sort of dry.

It can be argued that even with the risk of infection, an infection later is better than dead right now. The problem is that to be a viable emergency procedure it has to be practiced and it's the risk of infection from practice that is the issue.

-----

I've thought about this old practice more recently in the CCR fatal accident context. For example, if for some reason you've become separated from your teammate(s) , AND lost access to both primary and redundant diluent AND are then descending (or for some odd reason exhaled off the loop when you know you are short on or entirely out of diluent) that gas in the wing is the last source of diluent you've got. If that's the case, I wouldn't hesitate to use it when the alterative is not being able to exit a cave, or even more immediately, not being able to draw another breath.

In that regard, it's one more reason to run your dry suit just short of a squeeze and thus maximize the volume of gas in the BC, since that's potentially a usable volume of gas.

 

[Akimbo]

There were two manufactures, as I recall, that produced an inflation system that used a separate small air bottle for inflation. The pictured Bouee Fenzy and the Nimrod.

The story I read was that Maurice Fenzy invented the vest for the French Navy in the early 1960s. Fenzy made pure O2 rebreathers at that point. Nimrod came along after Fency demonstrated that a small market existed. I'm sure there's more to it than that and would like knowing more.

Neither one was particularly popular with west coast divers due to bulk

I think that was true in in Northern California too. We tended to only use them on demanding dives. Photographers like Al Giddings and Bob Hollis were the early adopters that I knew of because they were doing some pretty adventurous dives with big honk'n movie cameras. Seeing famous divers in Skin Diver Magazine using them probably had more to do with their adoption by recreational divers than actually needing them.

 

[Bob DBF]

In the basic SCUBA training I had there was no BC and my Mae West inflator was not made for easy breathing, later in my 1980 OW, the training warned against it. CO2 detonators were used for emergency buoyancy on BC's, and in the "fog of emergency", you could be breathing CO2.

In the period between the training I had heard of using that trick from mentors, but had no need to try it out. The warning about CO2 was givin, however since it was not a basic class, it was assumed you could handle the task loading and make the proper decision. I had a proper horsecollar by then.



Bob

 

[Akimbo]

CO2 detonators were used for emergency buoyancy on BC's

I'll never forget getting a Mae West for my first Scuba class and testing a CO2 cartridge. I took it off and squeezed the gas out through the oral inflator and made the stupid mistake of trying to suck out the last little bit. I can't remember exactly what was like beyond horrible. At those concentrations it is not odorless, tasteless, and colorless. Colorless maybe but there was a white powder involved.

 

[northernone]

I don't know it's history in 2015-2016 I've heard it introduced during training as an emergency contingency supplement to a normal CESA by 5 OW recreational instructors. It's risks were mentioned.

Personal semi modern history related to the topic: When I first got a "modern" BCD it was a skill I practiced enough to be comfortable using in an out of air situation. I don't recall where I got the idea. Never did it with a co2 cartridge and horse collar, those cartridges were gold and I never deployed one. It was only borrowed equipment. No BCD was the norm.

Regards,
Cameron

 

[DavidFL]

CO2 detonators were used for emergency buoyancy on BC's, and in the "fog of emergency", you could be breathing CO2.
Bob

My first SCUBA course (1967) and first instructor course (1969) were YMCA for certification but taught at the U.S. Naval Academy so we had a heavy mix of Navy over and above the Y requirements. Mae West's with CO2 inflators were required and there was a clear warning about not inhaling...the vests had oral inflation tubes. Lots of warnings about not inhaling anything else in the late 60s too.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

/...
/... later in my 1980 OW, the training warned against it. CO2 detonators were used for emergency buoyancy on BC's, and in the "fog of emergency", you could be breathing CO2.

In the period between the training I had heard of using that trick from mentors, but had no need to try it out. The warning about CO2 was given, however since it was not a basic class, it was assumed you could handle the task loading and make the proper decision. I had a proper horsecollar by then.

CO2 detonators and bag breathing were separate solutions for similar emergency ascent issues.

In both cases it's a given that you are out of breathing gas. It was after all the pre-SPG, J-valve era, and J-valves often got pulled accidentally. With an unbalanced piston first stage you got fair warning as the work of breathing increased significantly as the tank pressure approached the intermediate pressure, but with a balanced first stage there was no warning at all.

Assuming you were neutrally buoyant, you just made an emergency swimming ascent and exhaled on the way up to keep the airway open. The gas in the BC expanded and that ascent quickly became buoyant as well, with not much swimming required.

The CO2 detonators were more for use if for some reason you were negatively buoyant when you ran out of gas. Even with 32 gram cartridges at significant depth the loft as just enough to get you headed upwards, and there was no need to bag breathe. The other, and arguably more practical use of the CO 2 detonator was to quickly get someone positively buoyant on the surface, as power inflators were not yet universal.

In contrast, if you were negative at depth, and did not have a CO2 detonator, you could conceivably be in a position where the gas you had in your lungs was not sufficient to reach the surface given the extra swimming effort, and bag breathing would provide a very short term non scrubber rebreather capability using the gas in the BC.

In short, you'd configure for and use a CO2 system, or bag breathing, but never both. However, I suspect many divers never thought it through.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

/...
/.... Never did it with a co2 cartridge and horse collar, those cartridges were gold and I never deployed one. It was only borrowed equipment. No BCD was the norm.

Threaded cartridges were more expensive than the non threaded variety. I tested my fancy, redundant, two cartridge 32 gram cartridge system - just before I plugged it with 3/8" LP port plugs.

I then used the empty cartridges for years as first stage wrenches - since they had the same 3/8" thread.