Differences Between Men And Women In Diving

[Shiver]

I think that many women are more careful, conservative divers than our male buddies, but I'm by no means saying that all the guys are deep diving thrill-seekers or all the gals aren't and are timid. I just think women tend to think alot more about things, and not just in diving.

I have felt discriminated against a little bit (don't bite me here any guys down-under) in my most recent working environment, which was Perth, Western Australia. In the retail dive shop when I approached male customers to assist them in selecting new equipment, I'd often be passed off with "Just looking thanks", but when the male manager approached they'd be happy to talk gear with him. Filling tanks raised eyebrows too and when I offered to change a customer's computer battery for him, he said he'd come back when there was a guy in!

This kinda thing has been a rarity though for most of my dive career and generally I don't feel I'm treated any differently and certainly most guys are surprised that I can carry more kit than they can.

And I wouldn't mind a pee valve either....
Vix

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

Right on, Piiki!

 

[Cacia]

I prefer to dive with men, because they complain less, and usually don't blame other people as much if the dive does not go well. Maybe women expect men to take care of things more? I know I naturally rely on men more, even when I have no reason to.
Having said that, when the men don't complain, I have more air time to complain.

I'm not saying it is right, but I catch myself doing it. I find men less critical, in general.
Also, they are less prone to blabbing about what went wrong to the whole island, because they think it reflects on them too, since they were present. Women (myself included) will discuss all that more. (it doesn't stay in Vegas)

One thing I have learned the hard way, is that men do not navigate as well as they think they do. They will always indicate that they know exactly where you are, even when they are only guessing....99.9& of the time. Nothing changes underwater, remember that. They are usually better with a compass, but the denial about being lost seems to cancel that advantage out.

 

[Gene_Hobbs]

Hi Liz,

Please feel free to chime in on any experiences, questions, subject matters that pertain to women in diving.

Here are two UHMS workshops dealing directly with the topic of "women in diving".

Women in Diving.
Fife W (ed), 1987
RRR ID: 4251

Effects of Diving on Pregnancy.
Kent MB (ed), 1978
RRR ID: 4250

One chapter of this symposia funded by PADI/ DSAT:
Physiology in Depth. (1980)
RRR ID: 4231

We have several other papers/ abstracts worth looking over as well (if this info is of interest).

I am seriously considering putting together a seminar in November, just for women divers and would like to know issues that are not addressed as often or not at all, and try and educate ourselves in women in diving.

If you are serious about this, please contact Donna Uguccioni at DAN. She may be able to provide some assistance. I look forward to seeing your progress.

 

[DiverLS]

I am a 5'10" woman. I have huge problems finding gear. When I dive wet I like a skin underneath. It makes taking off and putting on the suit better. I can't get a suit with room enough in the torso to breathe.

The suit is also a problem. I buy a woman's suit in my size but it is 2" short in the torso and about 4" short in the legs. So I use the suit for ab diving only. Luckily DUI has L for Long suits. Heaven.

The only modification I made is a dive bag with wheels. I can take care of myself and dive solo a lot 'cause of the camera. I even had a young man I saw on the boat a lot ask me to be his girlfriend. He liked the way I could take care of myself. The problem, he was so young he could be my grandchild.

 

[rakkis]

Dive suit manufacturers recognize that men come in sizes that range from small to XXXL. Strangely enough the same manufacturers seem to think that women only come in size tiny to XL (and their XL is equivalent to a size 14). I just wish the wetsuits and especially drysuits came in 'normal' women's sizes.

Please don't take this out of context, but to be realistic, manufacturers won't make/stock sizes that aren't profitable for them. There are plenty of out of shape/obese men diving. There aren't as many female divers.. and from those, the demand for larger sizes is only a fraction. Until the time that they can break even by making larger suits for women, custom sizing will remain the easier option for large women.

 

[dvrliz1]

Wow, what great first responses. I agree about the pee valve... also about the suits both wet and dry. Let me give you a few of my experiences over the years.

Like I said I was certified when it was a huge men's sport, so when I was went on dive trips I was treated like one of the guys...kind of...I actually didn't mind. I felt accepted to a point. I have no problem with handling my own gear, tanks, etc. I did notice that when the "guys" wanted to do "guy things" and wanted to discuss similar things (no not just sex...stuff in general), I was either left out of the conversation while standing or sitting right there, or they felt they had to make "special compensations" for me because I was a woman. Buy the way, I can discuss football with the best of them...I love it (that was one of the topics I was kinda left out on, though I tried to intervene, it was like yeah, right but I think that is just a "guy" thing...lol).

Gene, very interesting reading, but I found it amazing how old these studies are and the majority of studies done are about women's menstrual cycles, effects on pregnancy. I did also like the few articles on effects of DCS on men and women (but these were divemasters), and that the difference of "deepest dive first" is safer, does not differ between men and women, but once again, these tend to be older (greater than 5 years).

Maybe its time for a study of the increase of women in the sport of diving (as well as techinical) Gosh...this could just open pandora's box. A study on the psychology of the women diver, maybe a study on the effectiveness on not being able to pee comfortable in a dry suit (Mazlows Hierarchy...being able to pee is one of them).

I totally agree with the patience of women in diving. I dive with both men and women and have a tendency to see that the women are more detail oriented,. I do notice that when I have a female dive buddy, we are more interested in taking our time and enjoying the "macro" life underwater. We tend to study a small area much closer than men do, IMHO. There is a spot here on Bonaire that is in very shallow water, with large heads of coral, particulary fire coral that are teaming with life. I can spend forever on one head, just checking out everything. I have referred many divers to that area, and find that the men don't find it as interesting as the women do.

I do have to say one thing about the suits and and the pee-valve. No understand that this is just my humble opinion, and not any type of research or factoids, but maybe just maybe, the industry caters to the male divers as they are the dominant gender, and that the investment in making "women related" suits would be cost prohibitive as the number of females divers is not enough to cover the cost and expense of making female adaptive suits, also for the ones that are making the female suits and BCDs, are these being developed by men for women? Maybe the reason a wet suit that says it fits a size 14 actually fits a size 10 women.... or maybe why I have yet to find a comfortable fitting women's BCD....

Rakkis...I stand 5'8" tall and wear a size 12-14 clothing, and am body proportionate. Why is it that a women's size 14 wet suit doesn't fit me? I do however agree about the profitability standpoint, but maybe just maybe if they actually made the correct sizing for the average women, they may sell more suits. I had to go to a men's medium to get a 3.2 suit to fit, and it is still a little to big, and the small is a little to small!!!!! The water cushion really never warms up to my body tempature so I tend to stay cold...hey maybe that is why we ladies tend to get colder faster!!!!!! (remember no research or factoids).

Just venting....I'm going to keep up with this as it seems that in the late 80's early 90's when women starting to really emerge in the sport the studies where done...

Maybe development of a few more recent studies.

Liz

 

[Gene_Hobbs]

I did also like the few articles on effects of DCS on men and women (but these were divemasters), and that the difference of "deepest dive first" is safer, does not differ between men and women, but once again, these tend to be older (greater than 5 years).

Decompression sickness risk in women.
Robertson, 1992
RRR ID: 2735

This one does refer to an article I have not read in SPUMS. There is a lot more out there in many other locations but we end up at the same old story of the information being spread all over the globe and listed in MANY databases (1). But you hit the nail on the head with the lack of recent information. Please keep in mind that funding for Undersea research has not really changed since the late 70's to early 80's. (DAN does have a VERY good thing going with their research endowment listed here)

Maybe its time for a study of the increase of women in the sport of diving (as well as techinical) Gosh...this could just open pandora's box. A study on the psychology of the women diver, maybe a study on the effectiveness on not being able to pee comfortable in a dry suit (Mazlows Hierarchy...being able to pee is one of them).

It would be nice to see a new study and done using topics that are of real operational interest to you all.

The water cushion really never warms up to my body tempature so I tend to stay cold...hey maybe that is why we ladies tend to get colder faster!!!!!! (remember no research or factoids).

Underwater Hot Flash?
Taylor, 2004
RRR ID: 1551
NOTE: Abstract only, no paper for download.

Women get cold? (sorry, could not help myself...)

Thanks again for bringing this up!!

1. Hobbs, GW. Hyperbaric Medical Literature. Global Underwater Explorers Annual Conference. Gainesville, FL. November 5, 2006. (Dive_Med_Lit.pdf)

 

[starryeye]

My biggest challenge, being a petite woman, seems to be the weight of all the equipment, especially when dripping wet after a dive. When you weigh only 115 lbs and the gear you're carrying is maybe 70 lbs, AND the surf is relentless and the shore is steep and pebbly, well it helps when someone's there to give you a steady hand. Calm waters, gentle slopes, no problem -- just give me a few seconds to steady myself upon standing on entry. And that wave coming at us on the shore? You can brace yourself and stand tall afterwards, but I'd be lifted off my feet. I'd better skedaddle... Oh wait, this gear is making me move in slow motion...

But seriously, though, I'm told a bit of bike riding should help those leg muscles...and of course, more diving.

I do see a lot of miserable-looking women in dive classes who are either cold or buckling under the weight of the equipment. Maybe that's why I haven't had any women dive buddies, except in class. The women I do know who are divers have so far declined diving the local waters due to the cold (temperate ) temperatures.

As for the issue of wetsuit sizing, I lucked out in that I found a brand that fits me oh-so-perfectly -- for the smallest wetsuit they make. I have the opposite problem listed in this thread -- I've only been able to find a handful of glove models, for example, that are within my xxsmall size range (and I lucked out again in finding one that, well, fits like a glove.) But hey, I accept the fact that most manufacturers would not find my size profitable, but I'm grateful to the ones that do supply me with my goods.

:dancingsnoopy:

 

[almitywife]

.........What do you think the biggest differences in diving are between men and women? Is it the gear? Do you prefer to dive with a man or a women? Do you feel "discriminated against" because you or a women diver? Do you feel you get more attention because you are a women diver?

my 2c is more the social aspect

when i was much (much) younger, thinner and single i found i was a bit like fresh meat and i still see this among the young gals as they become divers. but if you find the right group of mentors (usually married or older) it can be alot of fun.

almitychild is a very pretty 14yr old (God help us) and we already fighting off inappropriate comments (not those that we dive with, usually someone watching us gear up ect)

wetsuit sizing are a constant complaint for me.

personally, except for almitychild ive only dived with men, usually my age or older, always very giving of their knowledge and training.

cheers