Yeah, I assumed PADI because of the MI rating.
Guess we need to know the agency on @Belzelbub 's daughter's card.
Different instructor’s name on card
- Thread starter YertletheTurtle
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Guess we need to know the agency on @Belzelbub 's daughter's card.
There is an easy solution to this statement: OP was the Instructor that is on your certification card present during any part of your course? Sometimes all you have to do is ask. If so, we team teach all the time, even through 5 different agencies, PADI, SSI, PDIC, SEI, and CMAS. If not then in my professional opinion it is a violation of standards.
SSI does have a Divemaster Instructor. Its an instructor who can certify Divemasters / Dive Guides. I currently have 4 Divemaster Candidates that will complete there Divemaster certification by the end of the year.
And this statement is completely false. SSI also has a Master Instructor level as well. Once you have become a Dive Control Specialist Instructor, or what is known now as an Assistant Instructor Trainer, SSI will award you a Master Instructor (the equivalent to PADI's Master Instructor) after issuing so many certifications.
Belzelbub
Contributor
I agree for the most part, but there wasn't a whole lot of meat to that original post to make a determination if the name on the card was involved with the course or not. Just offering a valid reason why the name may be different than you would otherwise expect.
Now that I think about it, my original OW cert (PADI, 1990) has an instructor's name on it that I'm pretty sure I never met. The actual instructor of the course was a former co-worker of my dad's. Instructor name on it is something completely different. Regardless, that course was a sham for entirely different reasons.
Cool. So @Belzelbub just needs to confrim his daughter's certification is SSI.
Belzelbub
Contributor
In the PADI system, the name of the instructor who did your LAST checkout dive is the one that should be on the card. If it is another name then it is a standards violation.
The reason this happens is that sometimes highly experienced instructors who don't "need" any more "certifications" in order to climb the agency ladder will "give" those certifications to a colleague who is just starting. This way, a new instructor can become MSDT certified in a very short time, for example, which will open doors for them.
At a shop where I used to work this was standard operating procedure but we were always careful to make sure that the instructors whose name was on the card actually did the last dive.
I've heard of (and seen some) examples of this not being the case at all. A shop I know certified a new instructor all the way IDCS without her ever (or very often) getting wet if I'm not mistaken. She was *present* at the dives, but doing "surface supervision". This is a way that standards can be abused by making use of wiggle room that the agency didn't intend.
An old acquaintance of mine used to brag about this. He called it "cross certifying". In the PADI system it is not forbidden for someone to be certified more than once for a given course. For example, I have been certified for rescue diver twice because I took it in 1985 and then again in 1998 as a way to refresh my skills because I wanted to learn to be a DM.
So in the case of this shop I'm talking about, when they had new instructors they would have that instructor do what he called "cross certify" all the other instructors at the shop for specialties they could already teach. Some of them would have been certified multiple times for deep diving, for example, by different instructors, but it was all done on paper. Since they had the certification already the newbie instructors didn't have to worry about certifying someone who was unqualified and, of course, when asked, their colleagues would cover by saying, "of course he taught me". Nothing stops a shop from re-teaching instructors on the same course time after time and they lied about it by claiming that it was actually happening when in fact, they were just submitting certifications without doing any diving.
In this way someone could be brought from OWSI to MSDT in an afternoon of filling in forms. He also described it as a bit of a quid pro quo interaction that required participation in this way of working as well as benefiting from it. In other words, they were expected to return the favor to the next guy.
Why he would brag about that is completely beyond me but I guess he felt it was a completely legitimate way of moving up the PADI ladder, which, by the way PADI would refute in the strongest language, I'm sure. How do they root it out, however, when it's all documented exactly the same way as the other million certifications they issue per year and everyone lies when the call and ask about it.....
But yeah, stuff like this happens. ALL the time, and it's not new. In 1985 the name of the instructor on my Rescue card was someone I had never even met before.
R..
With SSI or any other agency participating in the universal referral system, the certifying instructor is the one who did the pool sessions and issued the referral. If someone else does the OW dives, even someone from another agency, the pool instructor gets the certification, even though he or she may not have been on the same continent when the diver did the checkout dives.
I don't think that is what is happening here, though.
I don't think that is what is happening here, though.
Yes, this can happen as well. I even participated in one case without intending to break any standards.
The shop asked me to give Nitrox theory to a group because everyone else was up to their eyeballs in other things. I'm an IANTD and TDI trained technical diver with a LOT of technical diving under my belt over the last 15 years or so. I know Nitrox. I know it very well... but I am not qualified to give the PADI Nitrox course. This is a conscious decision on my part because I believe that there should be dives involved and the PADI system does not require it and therefore I choose not to teach it.
The shop asked me to teach the Nitrox theory under supervision from a qualified instructor. This is allowed. For example, we used to have an ER doctor in the club asked him on occasion to teach CPR... and it is good that this is possible but of course it must happen under supervision so a qualified instructor can ensure that the standards are being met.
I said ok (somewhat naively in retrospect) and on the day of the course, the "qualified" instructor who was supposed to be supervising came for the introduction and then excused himself and I didn't see him again after that.
The shop even submitted the cert with my name on it, which, obviously, sparked a QA incident. They covered it up saying it was an administrative error and submitted the certs again with the name of the qualified instructor, who the students only met during the introduction round.
So yeah, this kind of things happens too.
R..
If this is the case for PADI as well then I think I've missed out on hundreds of certifications over the years. I'm pretty sure PADI put the name of the person present during OW dive 4 on the card.
R..
MichaelMc
Working toward Cenotes
From the paperwork it seems like they could easily notice that many instructors/DMs in a shop had gotten deep/rescue/etc several times over. Someone getting one or two twice, ok; most getting it twice or more, very suspicious. And why would most long term instructors wanting a refresher pick a new instructor to give it?
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