DIR in the tropics

[DCDivenut]

I have what I feel is a legitimate question and I am hoping I can ask it without getting killed

From what I have read about DIR (on this site, www.gue.com, and several other places) it seems that it is a overall approach to diving that is more focussed and strict than most of the other agencies.

That being said, the focus that I seem to pick up on is aimed at cave and technical diving, or for divers who plan on doing dives that are beyond the "normal" operating range of most divers.

That being said, what is the role of DIR in a warm water, open environment where a diver is not going to go beyond 120' and do strictly NDL diving. I ask this knowing that certain aspects of DIR are INVALUABLE in any diving scenario (buoyancy control/trim comes to mind) but since as several people point out over and over, DIR cannot be used piecemeal, but can only be properly applied in its entirety.

So... if you can only use DIR in it's entirety, and assuming that not all of the DIR principles are "necessary" for the majority of recreational diving, how does your "average" diver learn those skills if the other agencies do not properly emphasize them and DIR won't teach them piecemeal?

This is not intended to be a critique of DIR (if it were I know I would be a dead man posting) but a serious question. I HATE seeing divers act like idiots on a reef. However, we are not going to get everyone to take a DIR class (and I don't think DIR wants everyone to take their classes) so how else can we as "responsible diving leaders" get the "average" diver to apply the parts of DIR that are relevant to them in their daily diving?

 

[d33ps1x]

In there J.J. discusses in depth the logic behind the system and also how and why it applies to open water diving. Probably in clearer words than anyone here could.

It is very affordable and if anything a good read that gets you noodling about your diving a little.

 

[Robert Phillips]

One of the philosophies that has come out of cave and tech diving is: Take only the gear that you need and none of what you dont. That being said, for recreational diving the only thing that really changes is the equipment you carry. All the other aspects of DIR still apply; good buddy awareness, proper planning, air managment, etc...
You adjust your diving to the environment you are diving in, the skills you use dont change. As Deepsix has suggested , purchase Jarrod's book, "Doing it Right: The Fundamentals of BetterDiving." Recreational as well as tech diving is covered in his book.
I hope this helps.
Robert

 

[jplacson]

DC, DIR techniques are not 'technical' or 'cave' techniques. They are fundamental dive techniques which basically make you dive properly. DIR includes proper position, finning technique, buoyancy/trim, buddy communication, buddy awareness, diver awareness, basic stress management, and more extensive skill drills (almost like the ones you do in PADI but these are done to teach the student, not just to pass the course)

DIR-F is something I feel EVERY SINGLE DIVER should be REQUIRED to know... maybe not "DIR-F by GUE" but at least EVERY SINGLE DIVER should show the same level of proficiency before being dunked in the water and given a c-card, whether it's DIR by GUE or an equivalent agency. Just cuz someone has the desire to dive, doesn't mean he/she should be allowed to dive, if he/she cannot show a certain level of skill, or respect for aquatic life.

Now, I can say that most scuba agenicies do teach the same basic concepts... buddy awareness etc... BUT afaik, only GUE takes the time to see if every student REALLY GETS IT, and can actually perform the tasks well. PADI may have a similar curriculum, but quality isn't consistent, and anyone will tell you "It depends on how good your instructor is"... that, for me, is the whole point. Most agencies don't monitor their instructors close enough, nor do they require a consistent level of teaching methods... they are more concered with selling cute training materials and the like.

 

[DCDivenut]

Placson....

It's funny.. I think we agree and yet we are not saying the same thing...

From my personal experience I can say that I was one of the PADI "drop em in the water and if they don't float... good!" I was lucky to have a decent instructor but luckier to have good dive buddies starting out as well as a personal desire to be the best diver I could be. When I came out of PADI OW I was one of those folks who held onto their power inflator the entire dive. I quickly learned (luckily) that this was not the right way to do it and with the help of a great AOW instructor and some research on my part on this board and other places I learned the "right" way to do things.

I also ride motorcycles and participate in a few other sports where the possibility of endangering yourself and others, as well as the environment (although not to the same extent) is very likely. In all of these areas I have found similiar issues such as DIR. You always have a group of, for lack of a better word, purists, who see the mass influx of people into their sport as a threat and a danger. These people then react by forming groups such as DIR/GUE and saying that anyone who doesn't follow these principles is "less than perfect" I think that we can all think of various professional and recreational areas we participate in where this is the case.

The problems I see are these
1. These groups are usually right in the essence of their argument. However, they often get sidetracked by perception of them that they are elitist/arrogant and their VERY valuable message is lost in the chatter that ensues.

2. Another negative that I have seen develop in this area and others is when people take an all or nothing approach towards these things. If a person wants to use a jacket BC and a in-line octo but wants to apply all the other principles of DIR then why would we tell that person not to bother learining buoyancy control, trim and fin technique becase they are not following the entire "holistic" approach.

3. Development of new technology/techniques. The only problem with saying that one way is the right way is that it often makes progress difficult, kind of like biting the hand that feeds you. In order for the diving industry (or any similiar industry) to make progress and new developments it is going to have to fund that progress somehow. I will use a motorcycle example here... Harley Davidson sells a lot of Sportsters. In my opinion, and that of most serious bikers they are crap. However, HD makes good profit on them and then they can afford R&D on good bikes that are not crap. This is the same reason many companies make different versions of the same thing.

So... given these challenges... and given the fact that the momentum in the dive industry is going forward with lots of new divers coming into the "pool" every year... how do we as responsible divers, complete DIR adherents or not, ensure that all divers receive what we consider fundamentals before they are unleased onto reefs and other fragile environments.

 

[GDI]

Why would diving with correct attitude, skills and equipment be any different in the tropics then lets say a freshwater lake, The Great Lakes or your local quarry? They are not. Nor are the " Fundamentals" those very basic of skills different for any particular environment. Awareness in a overhead such as a cave, wreck or under the ice is a big concern. In the open water that same awareness needs to be there just as well. Consider that in open water you are in a "virtual overhead" called depth you need to be consistant in your skills regardless of where you dive.

 

[DCDivenut]

Why would diving with correct attitude, skills and equipment be any different in the tropics then lets say a freshwater lake, The Great Lakes or your local quarry? They are not. Nor are the " Fundamentals" those very basic of skills different for any particular environment. Awareness in a overhead such as a cave, wreck or under the ice is a big concern. In the open water that same awareness needs to be there just as well. Consider that in open water you are in a "virtual overhead" called depth you need to be consistant in your skills regardless of where you dive.

What I meant when I posed the question is that generally speaking, diving in 70 fsw with 78 degree temps and "virtual overhead" is GENERALLY more forgiving than then going to 200 ft in 40 degree water or going 10k ft into a cave. My question (or one of them) is can one utlize a piecemeal approach to DIR in less demanding enviroments and still reap large benefits?

I like that you mention attitude, skills, and equipment. Lets look at the 3 of them for a minute.

Equipment - In some ways this is the easiest and yet it often sparks the most controversy. Although I am new into the sport it seems that SCUBA equipment has undergone dramatic changes in the last 5-10 years. While I realize it can be argued that many so called improements in gear are just "marketing ploys" I think it is fair to say that if a company wants to sink money into R&D of valuable innovations it has to have moey to do so and the best way to get that money is to sell more gear. If that means rereleasing a BC and renaming an existing feature then let the buyer beware, but I would be hesistant to say that thereis ONLY one way to do things since that is what keeps new ideas from being born.

Skills - I whole heartedly that this is where the major certifying agencies have dropped the ball. It is very difficult to balance proper training (and I am not talking SEAL school here) with the desire to get more people involved in SCUBA. This is where someone needs to step up to either fill the void or a movement needs to happen within the sport to ensure that these agencies feel the pressure to make sure that they teach skills the right way and that students can perform them beforee being released into the ocean.

Attitude - This is probably the toughest IMO. In the real world I manage hotels and we have a saying, "hire for attitude, train for skills" It is very difficult to teach someone to have the right attitude. Of course, the military accomplishes this, and if you threaten people with expulsion you can help maintain the right attitude, but in a sport that covers 70% of the worlds surface the Dive Police are notoriously ineffective So what is the answer? I don't know. I am sure (I could be wrong) that if you went into a GUE class with the wrong attitude you wouldn't pass & from what I have heard/read about training in the old days instructors failed people all the time. From what I have seen you basically have to die to not pass a PADI class, or at least the basic ones. Is there a middle ground? I hope so...

 

[Robert Phillips]

What exactly do you want to eliminate for your tropical diving with a piecemeal approach to DIR?

What I meant when I posed the question is that generally speaking, diving in 70 fsw with 78 degree temps and "virtual overhead" is GENERALLY more forgiving than then going to 200 ft in 40 degree water or going 10k ft into a cave. My question (or one of them) is can one utlize a piecemeal approach to DIR in less demanding enviroments and still reap large benefits?

I think the only real change in the SCUBA industry has been the idea from manu's of the "more is better" approach to equipment. Jacket BC's are the most produced because the manu's feel they are more appropriate for "rec" diving and so the people who dive them feel tat is all they need to dive in. "Those back inflate BC's are for tech diving." Then they started making "back inflate" BC's to grab a corner of the market they couldnt reach without them and to make people who werent aware of back inflation think that they developed a new type of BC.
Wings have been around since the early days of cave diving and were developed by cavers. You dont want to be feet down/head up in a cave, why would you want to be in open water? Some people may be able to maintain a horizontal position in a jacket, but I have never seen it happen when they were stationary.

Equipment - In some ways this is the easiest and yet it often sparks the most controversy. Although I am new into the sport it seems that SCUBA equipment has undergone dramatic changes in the last 5-10 years. While I realize it can be argued that many so called improements in gear are just "marketing ploys" I think it is fair to say that if a company wants to sink money into R&D of valuable innovations it has to have moey to do so and the best way to get that money is to sell more gear. If that means rereleasing a BC and renaming an existing feature then let the buyer beware, but I would be hesistant to say that thereis ONLY one way to do things since that is what keeps new ideas from being born.

I belong to an e-mail list with divers from around the country and this reminds me of one person in particular. This person lives in the midwest and does most of her diving in the tropics and posts pictures of her trips on her personal website. The last trip she was on I believe she got her Master Diver cert. She is basically a card collector but is very enthusiastic about diving. But she is a complete cluster f*** in the water; Stands on the bottom, bad trim and bouyancy, swims with her hands, kicks coral, etc... But she has a card that tells people she is a "Master Diver."
Did this person not get trained properly or is she maybe some one who doesnt get it and never will but her attitude got her through training that may or may not have been questionable? I dont know, but if she had the ability to be a better diver, she went down the road that most people do and only looked as far as her LDS and her original training organization for that.
You can use any gear you want. Use the skills that make you dive better. You can dive properly with what you have but will you be DIR? No, because DIR is an holistic system. But you can still dive. Any skills that make you a better diver are worth using all the time.

Skills - I whole heartedly that this is where the major certifying agencies have dropped the ball. It is very difficult to balance proper training (and I am not talking SEAL school here) with the desire to get more people involved in SCUBA. This is where someone needs to step up to either fill the void or a movement needs to happen within the sport to ensure that these agencies feel the pressure to make sure that they teach skills the right way and that students can perform them beforee being released into the ocean.

Attitude - This is probably the toughest IMO. In the real world I manage hotels and we have a saying, "hire for attitude, train for skills" It is very difficult to teach someone to have the right attitude. Of course, the military accomplishes this, and if you threaten people with expulsion you can help maintain the right attitude, but in a sport that covers 70% of the worlds surface the Dive Police are notoriously ineffective So what is the answer? I don't know. I am sure (I could be wrong) that if you went into a GUE class with the wrong attitude you wouldn't pass & from what I have heard/read about training in the old days instructors failed people all the time. From what I have seen you basically have to die to not pass a PADI class, or at least the basic ones. Is there a middle ground? I hope so...

(I spent 20 minutes typing my reply before I slipped and closed out the page before sending it. This is a lame attempt to rewrite what I was thinking when I originally read the post. Sorry if I rambled)
Dive Safe!

 

[Uncle Pug]

I have what I feel is a legitimate question and I am hoping I can ask it without getting killed

...so how else can we as "responsible diving leaders" get the "average" diver to apply the parts of DIR that are relevant to them in their daily diving?

I am not sure where you are coming from here.

You say in one of your posts that you are new to the sport yet you ask the question as if you were one of the "responsible diving leaders" and evidently feel the responsibility to get the "average diver" to apply parts of DIR... ect. ect. ect.

Which are you: a new to the sport diver, an average diver, a leader in the sport of diving, a diver who wants to be a DIR diver or a teacher of tropical diving who wants to incorporate DIR?

Knowing the answer to the above question will help me answer your question(s).

 

[boomx5]

Placson....
You always have a group of, for lack of a better word, purists, who see the mass influx of people into their sport as a threat and a danger. These people then react by forming groups such as DIR/GUE and saying that anyone who doesn't follow these principles is "less than perfect" I think that we can all think of various professional and recreational areas we participate in where this is the case.

This is not the reason for GUE or DIR. Before making rediculous statements like this, you need to get your facts straight