Disabled Diver

[Jason3213]

Hey guys/gals, wife is currently undergoing classes for an HSA card. We are going on a carib cruise in july and I am trying to plan the activities. Stops are in Grand Cayman, Roatan, Belize(not planning to dive there) and Coz. Any info on dive shops in these places that could help would be appreciated. One thought i had was renting a scooter and towing her along. As a new diver myself, i am concerned that the "load" of towing her manually and the risk of currents may be too much for me to handle. Any suggestions, remarks or concerns would be nice.
Thanks, Jason

 

[pasley]

It sounds like you are going on a cruise that I took in 2008 as we dove all the spots your are talking about. I don't know all the particulars of your wifes situation so forgive me as I am going to make some assumptions and generalities below.

Is your wife a total quadriplegic? If not why would you need to tow her? I have had C6-7 Incomplete quadriplegics out swim me on the surface and paraplegics leave me behind on the bottom too as they out swam me using their arms. Did you take Dive Buddy training from HSA? Might be worth looking at. One thing you don't want to do is to handicap your wife. By that I mean put a limitation on her that she really does not have. That is very common, we able bodied individuals assume they can't do something so we don't let them try. I am currently teaching a class of 3 C4-5 incomplete Quadriplegics and 1 double above the knee amputee. I assume nothing. I have them challenge everything and attempt everything. They often surprise me and sometimes themselves too. Don't try to do too much for her.

I am concerned about you both being new divers. All the sites you have named (except Cozumel) they tend to take the divers to 80 feet for the first dive which is too deep for you as new divers to go to. Also do not rely on the DM to help or to be your safety and watch your gauges and bottom time. HSA standards are to set her computer to P1 or to add 10 feet when calculating bottom time. Cozumel is a drift dive, you just jump in and let the reef drift by no need to swim. Tell the dive OP you want an HSA certified DM with you.

I booked all my dives from the cruise line. There are advantages and disadvantages to this.
Advantages: 1 The cruise line has checked them out and has a contract with them and some liability as it is their contractor. If they get a lot of complaints, the would not use them. 2. The dive boat does not leave until the cruise ship divers get there. 3. At one of the ports the ship is anchored 4 miles from the harbor and the dive operator the cruise line contracts with picks you up at the ship, if you use another dive operator you will have to go to port first. 4. You will be the first off the ship in every port. 5. If you are late getting back the ship waits for you, or it is their responsibility to get you to the ship if it has already left. 6. If you have an issue such as leaving something behind (my last stop) the cruise ship will work with them to get it back.

Disadvantages 1. it cost a bit more that what you could negotiate on your own.

Take your own regulator and BC if you own them. The rental gear was horrible and I was glad I had my own.

Note, Carnival Cruise Valor - Corner cabin at the back, just a few dollars more, but the cabin is large with room for a chair to move around and a huge balcony (13 yards Vs, 10 Feet of the others).

 

[Jason3213]

Melvin, She has a spinal disease called sryngial meyalia, im sure i misspelled it. left leg is mostly useless, still a bit of mobility in the right, am planning on getting her a decent pair of webed gloves, the darkfins i saw here looked good. We are on the valor and have a huge cabin in the front. I dont want to hold her back but i dont want to let her bite off more than she can chew too soon. I certified late april and will hit 25 dives this week, 80 ft im sure ill be fine with but her DR has said ok to 50 and i agree with that for a while. So I guess im looking for a shop to do private/ semi private, shallower dives or shore dive prob with a scooter. The owner of my LDS is her HSA instructor and I will spend some time training with him but her only real issue physically is mobility. Also our local quarry has scooter certification. I am by the book when it comes to this. Im sure i forgot something, but theres a lil more info and thanks for the feedback.
Jason

 

[pasley]

OK, got it. If I am reading your post correctly she is a paraplegic, primarily the left leg. So she has full use of the arms and is very capable of out swimming you as she is with out the scooter. Now don't get me wrong, scooters are a lot of fun and I have borrowed a friends from time to time. I just wanted to point out that while it is an option, it is not necessary. Scooters allow you to move around quickly and to change depth quickly without realizing it too so you have to watch that. IF you are swimming together you would want to be just out of the arms reach (as she will be swimming with the arm) which means you will have to pay additional attention to see if she has an emergency. Better option is to position as normal, but just a foot higher so her arms will sweep below you as she swims and you will have good observation of her, and still be in easy reach if she wants you.

The Valor was the ship I was on. Should be fun. You can book through the cruise line and tell them you want some special arrangements.
I just rechecked my dive log. The dives are wall dives so you have to watch your depth and several of the divers were well below me. The cruise line sets limits on the dive operators on how deep you can do (I believe all our dives were below those limits). Please note I at all times was above or level with the DM. In fact for a portion of many of the dives I was next to the DM as we were the last two in the pool as the others surfaced as the ran low on air. I would take me insta-buddy to the surface and then return to diving next to the DM. I did, on occasion play the "I have Deco to do" card, to stay a while longer. NO point being back on the boat while you still have air in the 4 digits. As it was I was back on the boat with lots of gas left.
Grand Cayman Viz 100
90 Ft Dive Time 39 min Average Depth 52, remaining air 1102 PSI
48 Ft. Dive Time 1:02 Average depth 32 remaining air 870 PSI
Roatan Viz 100
78 Ft Dive time 47 min Average depth 38 remaining air 1160PSI
71 Ft. Dive time 54:50 average depth 48 remaining air 1305PSI
Belize Viz 100
69 Ft. Dive Time 39:40 Average depth 44 remaining air 1334PSI
64 ft. Dive Time 1:03 Average depth 33 Remaining air 783PSI
Cozumel Viz 100 Drift diving, no need to swim at all.
77 Ft. dive Time 32.50 Average depth 44 remaining air 1450PSI
54 Ft. Dive Time 42:30 Average Depth 38 Remaining air 1247PSI
The diving was excellent.
I wore a 3mm Wetsuit (most went with bathing suits and were cold by the end of the 2nd dive). Which was a good choice as it protected me from the sun, jellyfish (got a face full on one site) and kept me warm. Water was 79-81F. I wore 11-12 pounds of weight.

So to recap, you need to hire an experienced HSA certified dive professional. I am conveniently available, just need to pay my air fare from Los Angeles to Florida and my cruise fees(I don't drink so it is just cruise, and dive). When do we leave?

If you want to get a local, go to www.HSASCUBA.COM and click on FIND MEMBER, enter the country you are going to and that will give you a list of locals who are Instructors, DM, and you can also look up Dive Buddies.
There are locals in Grand Cayman, and Cozumel, In Honduras (Roatan) there are some on Utila, the island to the west, you may get them to come over and meet you. None available in Belize. The list of instructors and DM go from longest certified to newest(higher number).

 

[c5diver]

i have a question. why should a disabled diver use p1 on the computer? i am a c5 and never had anybody tell me that.
also i dove with dive paradise in march for a week they have a bunch of HSA trained staff.
i do have a medical implant that is much like a pacemaker that i was told to limit to 5 ata. but if it failed would not be life ending.

 

[pasley]

i have a question. why should a disabled diver use p1 on the computer? i am a c5 and never had anybody tell me that.
also i dove with dive paradise in march for a week they have a bunch of HSA trained staff.
i do have a medical implant that is much like a pacemaker that i was told to limit to 5 ata. but if it failed would not be life ending.

The practice of adding 10 feet to your actual depth when using the dive tables for planning a dive or setting your personal settings on a dive computer to P1 or higher (P1 adds 10 feet, P2 adds 20 feet on a SUUNTO Cobra Dive Computer) was taught to me by Jim Gatacre, founder of HSA during my Dive Buddy training for individuals with paralysis and certain other injuries/conditions such as the subject of the OP.

The reason for adding 10 feet to your actual dive depth is:
1. Scar Tissue does not off gas as efficiently as other tissues. Individuals with trauma induced paralysis often have lots of scar tissue in and around the spinal column. Since scar tissue is more prone to DCS than normal tissue HSA recommends you always dive conservatively, well within the no-decompression limits, make a 3 minute safety stop when diving 60 feet or deeper(HSA Instructor manual pg 55). Adding 10 feet to your depth for dive planning or setting your computer to P1 or higher (which adds 10 feet to its calculations) is a more conservative profile and additional margin of safety.
2. Individuals with paralysis often have poor circulation and therefore may not off gas as efficiently.

The HSA trained individuals you encounter as a certified SCUBA diver would not mention this or any other information you were taught in your SCUBA certification course because you are a certified diver already. The HSA instruction manual, in its discussion of scar tissue and spinal cord injuries stresses diving conservatively, well withing the no-decompression limits and with a 3 minute safety stop and slow 30 feet per minute or slower ascent rate.

 

[c5diver]

im not sure about the cobra protection settings i will look next time i dive (i have a cobra 3 also) but my primary dive computer is a mares nemo air and the protection settings on it reduces your no deco time by 28% from p0 to p+ then by 28% from p+ to p++. but as a quad i am never close to my no deco limit.

i alway do my saftey stop and since i always dive dry suit my ascent rate is closer to 30 feet per min. but i still tend to dive with my computer set to p0. i have spoke with a sci doc on more than once about diffrent things reguarding my injury and diving and was never warned of this.

i have a friend that just went through the class to be a disabled instructor, i will see if he was informed of this. at any rate i have had no issues diving and with two electronic implants built on the design of a pacemaker you will be able to read about the effects of repeated pressuration on these devices in the comming year or so as the research team that put them in me is tracking the data with the info i give them each year that i take from my computer at my annual follow up.

 

[pasley]

im not sure about the cobra protection settings i will look next time i dive (i have a cobra 3 also) but my primary dive computer is a mares nemo air and the protection settings on it reduces your no deco time by 28% from p0 to p+ then by 28% from p+ to p++. but as a quad i am never close to my no deco limit...

I do not know about the Nemo, I do know that on the Cobra 2 and I assume the 3 as well the P0 is normal and conservative, the p1 or p+ adds 10 feet as determined by looking at the dive tables and comparing them to what the computer was telling me on simulation of a square profile dive.

...I have spoke with a sci doc on more than once about different things regarding my injury and diving and was never warned of this.

Since your physician is doing a study on some electronics, he may have more going for him than the average doctor. I had one physician clear one of my disabled Veteran students for SCUBA and then when we were going to the Hyperbaric Chamber for a dry dive, said "no, you can't do that. Clearly a physician that was clueless about the demands of SCUBA. A SCI physician may not be familiar with the effects of SCUBA diving on the body or of bubble formation as this is a skill set normally found only in Dive Medicine or Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT) physicians or a physician that is an active SCUBA diver. I would recommend a conversation with a DAN physician(which yours may be). Diving by quadriplegics has been done safely for over 30 years with the proper precautions.

...i have a friend that just went through the class to be a disabled instructor, i will see if he was informed of this....

Pg 55 of the HSA Instructor manual talks about the scare tissue and circulation (circulation being almost a non issue). The manual states it as "use the dive tables conservatively" which is legal speak for add 10 feet. The manual also states that the newer computers and Buhlmann Tables are more conservative (Instructor manual pg 55). I was taught by HSA founder Jim Gatacre and remember him saying to add 10 feet. It could be that since this was oral, that is was out of habit and the further you get from tree it may drop off. It seems to me Jim Elliott of Dive Heart, an HSA Course director also mentioned it. I am visiting him next week (he lives 30 minutes from me) and will have to ask him about it.

...at any rate i have had no issues diving and with two electronic implants built on the design of a pacemaker you will be able to read about the effects of repeated pressurization on these devices in the coming year or so as the research team that put them in me is tracking the data with the info i give them each year that i take from my computer at my annual follow up.

We appreciate your devotion to SCUBA diving and to furthering the science behind it.

 

[c5diver]

jim elliott with dive heart did my cert.

if scar tissue is such a hazard would it not be an issue for all divers, not just disabled divers. or is it just an issue with the spinal cord? there is a huge amount of scar tissue that comes from say a bowel surgery would this also be a problem with off gassing? and if so shouldn't the average diver be warned of it as surgery is pretty common today?

 

[Jason3213]

love where this is goin, as hers is a spinal scar so to speak. keep talikin please