Disappointed / Frustrated with my first OW class

[filmguy123]

oly5050user - not sure if that was implying that I was a problem student having difficulty or not, but I did not find I was having difficulty, just frustrating with the poor training. My problem isn't that the course was too hard and that I couldn't keep up. If anything it was that it was too "easy" as in, it almost felt like a useless exercise in blindly following orders. Super rushed, and not nearly enough theory or practice/assistance in practical application.

Thrawn makes a good point - we have plenty more chances to practice and go through this. That will be good. I am concerned with how being so behind on the training on day 1 might bleed into being rushed on day 2 and so forth, but I am hopeful it can be resolved. If not, I guess its just accepting what many others have said - your real training comes after you get your c-card. That's fine, it's just coming to terms with the unfortunate reality that the classes aren't nearly as thorough as I personally feel they ought to be. But, hopefully it gets better and my opinion improves. I am optimistic.

Talking to students after, my experience seemed to be a common sentient - though most seemed far more apathetic to the training lacking, and were more concerned with just getting it over with. That said oly5050user, I agree with your sentiments in theory - I have been subjected to the really slow learner in a class a number of times - but I do not find this remotely applicable to my experience in the course or in regards to the particular problem spots that were experienced by myself and others.

urbaneve - yes, we too did the swim test. A bunch of laps followed by treading water. It was a workout but nothing problematic for anyone in the class.

 

[urbaneve71]

oly5050user stated that just because the user is having problems with his mask her automatic solution is to hire a private instructor. in my class, this is one of the first things we covered. now i dont know about any other instuctors, maybe i had a a great one, but he took to the time to make sure everyones worked just fine.. I find it a bit extreme to go from a mis-fitting mask to a private instructor. same goes for those who do not swim well.

as you stated, we had to do laps to make sure we could swim well enough to be in the scuba class, if you could not make it a certain distance you could not participate in the class.

i too had one instructor +1 assistant but they were very through and went through each step and made sure that we all understood what was going on and allowed us to ask question and if we did not understand they would explain again. it seems to me the original poster simply did not have a good instructor at which point she should have found another one. the one good thing i learned from mine is -- safety first and the rest comes later.

then came how to use equipment. a good instructor should not rush through anything. all aspects of diving are important. the fact that there are 10 to 1 just goes to prove incompetence IMO

 

[urbaneve71]

I would say that an instructor that stops the class progress for too long a time for 1 problem student who does not get it is wrong and unfair to others in the class who show up on time and prepared and not a very good instructor.
If a student signs up for a group class and needs individual help while the rest of the class gets it right it is not fair to the other students to be held up and have their time in class delayed by spending an inordinate amount of time with the individual that has issues. Everyone paid for a group class and this can happen. Group classes are less expensive than private for a reason. It's a GROUP class not a one to one private class with individual attention. When you ride in a taxi it costs more than a bus for the time saved and comfort it delivers. Same with a private class vs a group class. More times than not are they not comfortable swimmers. I say continue the course on its schedule for the rest of the group and either recycle the person with problems into next class at no charge or suggest an upgrade to private class. Everyone learns at different rates and if someone knows they are slow elearners, poor swimmers, scared some how of being in the water they should be prepared to pay a bit more for the extra care they need. Instructors are paid little enough as it is and to expect them to work on their own time after class with 1 person that does not get it is unfair to the instructor and only cuts into the instructor per hour pay to less than minimum. After all people it is a business.
Very often I have worked with a problem student while the rest of the class that finished and completed their objectives pratice in the pool on their own. I am not a ogre, But to have a class of 8 up to module 4 and one student who still cannot make a controlled descent or clear a mask of water without difficulty , you have to ask why this person is having so much difficulty while the rest of the group is doing great. That student should be in a private class and be charged for it.

so you think that going over mask training is prolonged and unfair to other students -- did you stop and think that maybe there are other students that maybe having the same troubles. i would say that siging up for a private instructor is a bit much and maybe she doesnt have the money to do so.

i would hate for a student to finish class and go diving with out proper use of how to use a mask -- thats just asking for trouble and then whos liable. that could come back and bite the instructor in the ass becuse he didnt take 5 whole mins to show her how to fit the mask. use your head.

 

[filmguy123]

yeah, its all good. Lucky to be surrounded by some really great people in the PNW (you know who you are!) who have been super helpful in getting me the info and resources I need and assured me I'll be able to get plugged in and taken care of post course.

I also know it was an off night for the shop so I don't want to say anything bad about them. If it continues, that's one thing. Not excusing it, just hoping to see a better next few weeks and also a recognition that I'm approaching this whole sport from a totally different angle and mindset than 90% of their clientele. It's too bad that it's not a required policy to teach at no more than a 4:1 ratio, and perhaps more detailed/thorough training from the get go, but it is what it is.

Ultimately, the important part for me is knowing that I'm in good hands with the local community - so props to them and big thanks for all the help and support! Funny that ultimately some of the best education will come from the local peers and community, but I suppose that's also a really cool part of what makes the scuba community so great!

 

[filmguy123]

and just FYI urbaneve, I'm a dude - but like I said, the mask didn't hold me up at all. I had already read how to self clear it, which I did just fine. That was just one example out of many, not sure why everyone got so excited about that one in particular.

 

[urbaneve71]

sorry about that - i went and corrected it LOL

i was just trying to clear a point with the other person about taking to far with going with a private instructor.

 

[filmguy123]

Haha no problem, I got a good laugh. And Definitely! While I'm now interested in private instruction (or semi private 3/4:1), it's for totally different reasons

 

[Fedaykin]

Wow, 1 to 10 is a ratio I have never witnessed before. I have taken my Scuba Diver (Open Water at PADI) license from NAUI and 2 Star (Advanced Open Water at PADI) from CMAS. Both were from local diving clubs in my home city, not from a touristic area. Theoretical classes are generally about 6-10 hours depending on the group. As generally your group will be the only one during that day that there is no need for rush, it last as long as it is needed. Main advantage is during practical training at sea. When you go for a weekend this means you will have 4 dives. First three dives must not be more than 1 to 4. Even this number is too high for me. 2 weeks before my wife has taken first 4 diving lessons. At first dive they were 4 students and 2 trainers. When she started to have problems, 1 of the trainers taken her as 1 to 1. An other trainer get in the water and the rest of the group become 2 to 3. Her 2., 3. and 4th lessons were always 1 to 1. Also as she was not ready yet that she has taken 1 to 1 lessons last week for her 5th, 6th and 7th dives. She made her first group dive at her 8th dive. After that her 1 star license (Open Water at PADI) is given to her. Also this weekend we will be going to an other diving location without our club and I will continue buoyancy control training to her and an other 1 star diver from her training group which will be there also.

I don’t see diving as a regular business and don’t accept 1 to 10 lessons like automatic manufacturing lines. This means you are throwing hand grenades to the sea which are ready to explode. Diving with the same club means if you don’t give proper training than you will be diving with those unprepared divers. Don’t dive with a group who rushes training.

Diving is not like learning how to paint. If you make mistakes during painting, than you will be a bad painter. If you make mistakes during diving, you die…

 

[urbaneve71]

Wow, 1 to 10 is a ratio I have never witnessed before. .....When you go for a weekend this means you will have 4 dives. First three dives must not be more than 1 to 4. Even this number is too high for me.

I don’t see diving as a regular business and don’t accept 1 to 10 lessons like automatic manufacturing lines. This means you are throwing hand grenades to the sea which are ready to explode. Diving with the same club means if you don’t give proper training than you will be diving with those unprepared divers. Don’t dive with a group who rushes training.

Diving is not like learning how to paint. If you make mistakes during painting, than you will be a bad painter. If you make mistakes during diving, you die…

Excellent post about mistakes during a dive. I have seen divers panic because masks being an issue. Even though this is not the main point of this discussion, it is an important part of learning. Panicking can lead to fatal mistakes and even get your dive buddy into to trouble.

To me a 10 to 1 ratio means the instructor is just trying to pack them in to make money and not worried about safety of their divers.

 

[filmguy123]

Is the ratio counted as instructors to students?

Because there was a DM assistant there, so it was 10:2 (1 instructor, 1 DM)

Good posts nonetheless

Someone else mentioned that it really should be 2 instructors for a group of 10, plus DM assistants.