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Ditching run time

Discussion in 'Hogarthian Diving' started by lefrogster, Feb 27, 2014.

  1. lefrogster

    lefrogster Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Hong Kong
    I took PADI tec 40 and 45, and one thing that bothered me was following the run time, starting from the initial ascent, through the bottom time and during decompression. Basically, the run time forces you to stick to a strict schedule, putting stress on you during critical tasks such as gas switches. It never made sense how you're supposed to carefully check your gas and depth and do a switch at the same time you're rushing to meet the schedule planned by your run time.

    Then I moved to IANTD normoxic, and my instructors did away with run time. This allowed us, in team diving, to do our gas switches sequentially, so you can check your teammates switches, and start your deco time only when everyone has switched. So you don't have to stick to an absolute run time schedule planned at the start of the dive. It also makes more sense, for instance, if you had to spend a bit more time during a switch, to untangle a hose, or fix a buoyancy problem, which would throw off your run time for the rest of the dive.

    So I say, why task load yourself and stress out trying to stick to a run time schedule -- to the point where rushing can compromise safety?
  2. KD8NPB

    KD8NPB Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Summerville, SC
    Instructor preference.

    My instructor didn't hammer runtime in Tec40/45/50, simply that we understood it.

    We did gas switches at our leisure with no stress. It probably translates into us running a minute or two over on some of the stops, but heeeyy, conservatism! Pretty much all of us were running multigas computers anyways. The schedule was just to keep the group together.

    For the REAL dives for Tec45/50, we added a moving 3-5 minute safety stop on top of the final stop. We simply finned shallow @ about 15 ft mark until we got to the platform.
  3. Redshift

    Redshift DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Finland
    I also felt stressed when having to follow run time during the course, and then if you for some reason get delayed, you have to start changing all the next stops.
    After the course I ditched it. I leave the bottom when I have to and don't hang around in the deep, but once I get to the stops I follow the stop time and not a runtime.
  4. nimoh

    nimoh Public Safety Diver

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Rochester, MN
    I generally try to follow run time but also have duration of the stops listed in my plan. If any problems are encountered, we may decide to abandon runtime, or abandon the schedule altogether and go to a contingency plan. So, while I like runtime, I did away with the "forces you to stick to a strict schedule" :)

    I think what helps is to practice deploying/stowing hoses and bottle rotations while in motion (ascending, descending or just swimming). When approaching a gas switch stop, I have my deco hose out in front of me, and ready for a teammate to verify immediately at the stop. If I need to stow a hose, it takes a bit longer, and I glance at my bottom timer from time to time in case the ascent to the next stop needs to be started prior to finishing.
  5. tkdgodess

    tkdgodess PADI Pro

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Canada
    The instructor i choose is padi and tdi, (i got padi cards) he did not emphasize run time, just that we should be close so we should be planning our dives to account for gas switches ect, as we got better we got closer to run times. Run times do go over, a computer model is very predictable, the ocean isnt. A bit of extra deco isnt so bad, its if you exceed depth and/or bottom times, more deco, got that plan? Or gas?

    The guys i did my tec65 and trimix and i discussed and planned, and executed our stops and gas switching on land before hand and it goes really well. I dive with others who arent quite on the same page, and stops and switches always take longer.
  6. wedivebc

    wedivebc CCR Instructor Trainer ScubaBoard Supporter

    So when I first read your post I thought you're kidding right? So now I am wondering, you're kidding right?
  7. decompression

    decompression Instructor...seriously...

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
    Um....interesting......I hope ratio deco is mentioned somewhere.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  8. kwinter

    kwinter Rebreather Pilot

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: South Jersey
    Nobody should be that anal. After all, decompression is not an exact science. Runtime is important to the boat crew who need to know when you are overdue. But no one is calling the coast guard if you are 3 minutes late.
  9. Wayne at DiveSeekers

    Wayne at DiveSeekers Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: New Jersey
    Sorry, I teach (PADI & TDI) Runtime. I like planning my dive and diving my plan. There is a little bit of a learning curve coming from recreational diving, but I teach it from the start (not just when you get to trimix, as some do) of Tec, and my students learn to run their schedule right on! I don't get gas switching taking a long time and throwing off schedule. Plan (note proper bottle, turn on) for gas switch at stop below actual switch, then execute at actual depth. At actual stop its just reconfirmation of bottle, hose trace and switch. With one bottle it's a no brainer. Two bottles, a little more attention to detail. If my students can't run schedule, they can't move on to the next dive. A schedule is a schedule (does not get rewritten, if so design your own software), if I tell the boat captain that I am going to be back on the boat in 92 minutes, then I am. Stress of running schedule? I only see this if your buoyancy and control in the water is not where it should be. If you are stressing on ascent, practice within recreational profiles until you get confidence, then slowly increase deco as your comfort level rises.

    Just curious, How many dives did it take to complete your Deco class?
    dvankirk and RJP like this.
  10. Mikko Ilari Laakkonen

    Mikko Ilari Laakkonen Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Helsinki, Finland, Finland
    Just remember that on deeper stops you are still on gassing your slow tissues so you just might **** your dive plan if you keep the stops but extend overall runtime significantly.

    - Mikko Laakkonen -

    I love diving and teaching others to dive.
    dvankirk and TSandM like this.

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