Or dive the Hyde in 85 ft of water with the deck at 60 ft. Always see Sandy's during the summer and early fall. Sometimes a few.
Somteimes a lot. Counted 24 once.
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Dive Computers (Suunto vs Oceanic)
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Or dive the Hyde in 85 ft of water with the deck at 60 ft. Always see Sandy's during the summer and early fall. Sometimes a few.
Somteimes a lot. Counted 24 once.
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Well according to the OP profile he's done less than 25 dives. What makes you think that he really knows what he's asking for?
It's beyond my understanding why would anyone buy a computer that can't be upgraded as software BUGS are discovered and fixed.
You like/dislike suunto's rgbm ... Which one? I've had my share of suunto's and worn them on the same dive. Different models give different outputs.
Just my two cents.
D
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@dmainou Just the fact that I may not have over 200 dives under my belt scuba diving doesn't mean I don't know what I am asking for or want. For your information I have done quite enough dives and had the opportunity to play with numerous devices, just not in a divers setting. After my research and experience from other computers in the past from freediving I have decided to choose between these two brands. And again my question is in reference to the algorithms between these two brands and not the one you have spoken of. I ask that you refrain from posting if you aren't going to engage the conversation in a friendly manner because at the end of the day how are you sure of what I want.
Nv, then your answer is in the Rubicon foundation archive not here.
However, my point still is if you happened to choose wrongly wouldn't you be better if with a computer that can be upgraded vs one that can't.
It's your money dude.
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However, my point still is if you happened to choose wrongly wouldn't you be better if with a computer that can be upgraded vs one that can't.
It's your money dude.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
The rest of you have supplied a lot of information based on experience and I thank you for that. It's not that I am not open to other brands, but you can present them in a manner such as others have in this thread.
After further research the NDL limits appear to vary greatly at shallower depths, but are within a few minutes at deeper depths (80 or more, which is what I tend to dive). I suppose at this point it is just a matter of preference and price as my LDS won't rent computers.
I am also hesitant to go strictly digital in case of failure so I am thinking of having a stand spg and depth console as well.
---------- Post added June 6th, 2013 at 09:17 PM ----------
I agree with you with having a computer that can be updated and both brands have select units with that option. Something that I am highly considering.
After further research the NDL limits appear to vary greatly at shallower depths, but are within a few minutes at deeper depths (80 or more, which is what I tend to dive). I suppose at this point it is just a matter of preference and price as my LDS won't rent computers.
I am also hesitant to go strictly digital in case of failure so I am thinking of having a stand spg and depth console as well.
---------- Post added June 6th, 2013 at 09:17 PM ----------
I agree with you with having a computer that can be updated and both brands have select units with that option. Something that I am highly considering.
Nv,
I have been diving Suuntos for about 20 years now - starting with the "Suunto Solution Alpha" - and for a while now I have been diving a Suunto D9 (Suunto RGBM) and a Hollis DG03 (which is more or less an Oceanic VT3, Bühlman ZH-L16c). Surprise, surprise: even on Deco dives with complex profiles, both show NDL-times and later deco-times within 2 minutes of each other. So unless you really want to push the limits using a tekkie-computer, I would go with the one you simply like better. I don't see any responsible Suunto or Oceanic users walking around with the bends.
In my opinion:
Changing the batteries is easier with the Hollis (Oceanic) plus the batteries are more easily available, and changing gases underwater is more intuitive.
Changing the Suuntos batteries is a lot more finicky (but that's the D9) but they last much longer, display of NDL/Deco-info is clearer and overall usage is more intuitive.
I have been diving Suuntos for about 20 years now - starting with the "Suunto Solution Alpha" - and for a while now I have been diving a Suunto D9 (Suunto RGBM) and a Hollis DG03 (which is more or less an Oceanic VT3, Bühlman ZH-L16c). Surprise, surprise: even on Deco dives with complex profiles, both show NDL-times and later deco-times within 2 minutes of each other. So unless you really want to push the limits using a tekkie-computer, I would go with the one you simply like better. I don't see any responsible Suunto or Oceanic users walking around with the bends.
In my opinion:
Changing the batteries is easier with the Hollis (Oceanic) plus the batteries are more easily available, and changing gases underwater is more intuitive.
Changing the Suuntos batteries is a lot more finicky (but that's the D9) but they last much longer, display of NDL/Deco-info is clearer and overall usage is more intuitive.
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I've said the following to Nv on a pm . Others may fiund it usefull. (of course this is my opinion and not necesarilly fact)
....If you wish to learn a little bit about deco start by reading this book. It's in plain English.
http://www.amazon.com/Deco-Divers-De.../dp/1905492073
Now, in as few words as I can possibly state.
Both computers algorithms are proprietary and don't publish what they model or how. I have a fundamental problem with that.
The first Pelagian model is essentially Haldanian, the most liberal and the oldest. The unmodified model is relatively aggressive in the sense that these days we know that it's probably best to do a bit more deco especially over repetitive days.
Who knows what pelagian has done to "enhance" the algorithm. It's not public.
Buhlman. Her Dr Buhlman did a lot of research in the 80-90's He came up with the first altitude diving algorithm and enhanced the haldanian model a lot. More importantly, he made his algorithm PUBLIC. Most technical dive computers are based on this algorithm or an extension of it.
A modified Buhlman is at the core of the oceanic second algorithm. Again no notes on the changes.
RGBM, new age model that hasn’t gone through a lot of peer reviewed testing. There is a lot of research from one group of researchers and they claim to be safer the jury is still out. Big problem with this algorithm is that it is very very hard to plan what you’ll be doing over repetitive dives or as soon as you go onto deco. The problem for you here is if you go into a dive trip and you think you’ll have an easy 3rd dive. All of a sudden it tells you that you have 15min for some unknown reason (maybe you had a quick ascent). You could be short on air by then which would make you blow the mandated deco which then blocks the computer for 48 hours… bloody disaster. Deco may be very close on a day by day basis it's only when you go on a trip that you need to be aware that this could happen.
I don’t really like air integration if can get away without it then take a look at the liquivision kaon. Both the linxs and the kaon have Buhlmann algorithms
Otherwise take a look at this one.
heinrichsweikamp
Heinrichs Weikamp Frog in case the link doesn’t work.
It has an apnea mode which you seem to want, has straight Buhlman for every day dives and Gradient Factors for planned deco. It handles up to three nitrox mixes. You can use this for any dive up to 50m
Doesn’t work as a bottom timer or can be upgraded to trimix. If you are interested on them buy the OSTC 2 or OSTC3. Take a look at the Shearwater Petrell.
You are asking questions in a recreational forum. It may pay off to ask the same question in a technical forum. You may get interesting answers that are perfectly applicable to your diving at half the cost of a recreational solution.
I hope this helps.
D
....If you wish to learn a little bit about deco start by reading this book. It's in plain English.
http://www.amazon.com/Deco-Divers-De.../dp/1905492073
Now, in as few words as I can possibly state.
Both computers algorithms are proprietary and don't publish what they model or how. I have a fundamental problem with that.
The first Pelagian model is essentially Haldanian, the most liberal and the oldest. The unmodified model is relatively aggressive in the sense that these days we know that it's probably best to do a bit more deco especially over repetitive days.
Who knows what pelagian has done to "enhance" the algorithm. It's not public.
Buhlman. Her Dr Buhlman did a lot of research in the 80-90's He came up with the first altitude diving algorithm and enhanced the haldanian model a lot. More importantly, he made his algorithm PUBLIC. Most technical dive computers are based on this algorithm or an extension of it.
A modified Buhlman is at the core of the oceanic second algorithm. Again no notes on the changes.
RGBM, new age model that hasn’t gone through a lot of peer reviewed testing. There is a lot of research from one group of researchers and they claim to be safer the jury is still out. Big problem with this algorithm is that it is very very hard to plan what you’ll be doing over repetitive dives or as soon as you go onto deco. The problem for you here is if you go into a dive trip and you think you’ll have an easy 3rd dive. All of a sudden it tells you that you have 15min for some unknown reason (maybe you had a quick ascent). You could be short on air by then which would make you blow the mandated deco which then blocks the computer for 48 hours… bloody disaster. Deco may be very close on a day by day basis it's only when you go on a trip that you need to be aware that this could happen.
I don’t really like air integration if can get away without it then take a look at the liquivision kaon. Both the linxs and the kaon have Buhlmann algorithms
Otherwise take a look at this one.
heinrichsweikamp
Heinrichs Weikamp Frog in case the link doesn’t work.
It has an apnea mode which you seem to want, has straight Buhlman for every day dives and Gradient Factors for planned deco. It handles up to three nitrox mixes. You can use this for any dive up to 50m
Doesn’t work as a bottom timer or can be upgraded to trimix. If you are interested on them buy the OSTC 2 or OSTC3. Take a look at the Shearwater Petrell.
You are asking questions in a recreational forum. It may pay off to ask the same question in a technical forum. You may get interesting answers that are perfectly applicable to your diving at half the cost of a recreational solution.
I hope this helps.
D
Yes, a very fair summary, for recreational diving. In general, you will find the primary limitation on dive time will be your gas supply as much as / more than your NDL. That may not be universally true but I have never found a Suunto computer to prevent me from a) longer recreational dives, either at depth (>100') or on shallow sites (40'), or b) repeated recreational dives (4-6 / day for a week in Bonaire).
Richard, I sincerely hope you get to make that bucket list trip.drrich2:
I am fortunate enough to be able to do them several times a year (and I enthusiastically recommend the Dixie Arrow as one such site, if you like sand tigers) using 120s or even double 100s. And, I don't honestly find my Suunto to hold me back from the joy of watching those beautiful creatures swim around me.
Good. Please continue to be hesitant. While I have no concerns about using a dive computer as my primary / only depth gauge - failure of a depth gauge will not necessarily cause termination of a dive - I am hesitant to use it as my primary pressure display instrument - or, more specifically, a wireless air-integrated computer as a primary gas supply display.
I don't have personal Oceanic computer experience. What I know is hearsay, but what I have heard from owners is generally positive. I do have other Oceanic gear experience and that has been positive. I also do have 11 years of Suunto dive computer experience, albeit with 'large display' models - Vytec and HelO2 - and that has been very positive. Yes, I find my Suuntos to be a bit conservative at times - on decompression dives, my HelO2 is more conservative than my Liquivision X1, for example. But, for recreational dives there is no functional difference. I like batcave's summary:
I don't think you will find either computer that you are considering to be limiting.batcave:
Last summer I dived the U-352 at 110 feet on EAN 30, and my Suunto D6 gave me about 30 minutes of bottom time. Granted, that is total bottom time including descent and ascent, and granted it was the first dive, so it's not that much time spent on the wreck, but that's as much as this recreational diver expects for a 110-foot wreck dive. I felt I had plenty of time to see the wreck. I was not the first one back on the boat, but even if I were first back, that is not a major fear of mine. After a 1:35 surface interval, we dove the Caribsea at 82 feet and saw lots of sand tigers. My log says I got 44 minutes of bottom time. As I recall, I didn't feel rushed.
I hope to go back again this summer.
I won't argue that a Suunto or other conservative computer is right for everyone, but it works well for me. If I want to get more bottom time, I'll learn deco rather than simply get a more liberal computer.
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