Diver dies in Manatee Springs

[Germie]

I only have pictures of the old situation. From both sides. Have posted them already on facebook. Now it is narrower. But you still can find videos on Youtube about the traverse in old days. So it is not strange that if you don't know about the new situation that you try. Yes, you could have asked, but if you didn't heard about a collapse, then things aren't changed you think. In the videos it is wide enough. Also you can say you must have done the travers against current first, but that was a lot of times also not possible in the time you could do it. We have looked at the Manatee side, it was wide enough, but the current too strong. Then we went with a local diver to Catfish (or better, we entered at friedman, did a circuit there and exited at manatee) and did the traverse. So seen both sides, wide enough, do it. Others will do just the way from catfish based on pictures. Wrong? You cannot judge all decisions. And as written above, a lot of divers did it this way. It is just a sad accident.

 

[helodriver87]

Others will do just the way from catfish based on pictures. Wrong? You cannot judge all decisions. And as written above, a lot of divers did it this way. It is just a sad accident.

Blind one way traverse with no ability to turn around? Yeah, I feel pretty comfortable judging that decision. Do what you're gonna do, everyone has to make their own choices. Maybe that's within your acceptable level of risk. But let's not pretend that nobody can make judgements about those choices.

 

[Germie]

Blind one way traverse with no ability to turn around? Yeah, I feel pretty comfortable judging that decision. Do what you're gonna do, everyone has to make their own choices. Maybe that's within your acceptable level of risk. But let's not pretend that nobody can make judgements about those choices.

I do agree that you normally verify things, but manatee springs was not as other caves I believe. And if you judge others, look at own mistakes then also. That is what I mean. I cannot judge about what happened. And I won't. It is a sad accident.

This is the old situation (bad pictures, but I don't have betters):

This is the Manatee exit/entrance. Only sometimes you could enter. But you see that it is not that narrow.

This is the exit to Manatee from Catfish Hotel:

Where this picture is taken there was a way back. I took it out of the current (there was still a slight current, but possible to go back). If you went into the flow, the only way was getting out. You had to grab a tree otherwise you would have blown to surface and could not do decostops.

This was the situation in februari 2017. I don't know how it is now. But as you see, it is not that narrow on these pictures. It is now collapsed and narrower. People say that if you now are on the place where I took the exit picture, you cannot go back anymore. That is tricky. We don't know the reason why the divers decide to do the manatee exit after the collapse, but I can imagine that based on the pictures or information found post collapse that you want to try it. The person where we did it with would now never do it again, impossible he says. So yes, verifying the exit, but manatee is known as not divable as cavedive. All cavedivers enter at Friedman or Catfish. We don't know the reasons why the divers tried it now. So we cannot judge the decision.

 

[helodriver87]

They likely tried it because they heard it was a fun one way trip. Used to be, from what I understand. But even if there hadn't been a collapse, we're still talking about doing a blind downstream one way traverse with significant flow with no experience in the system or local knowledge. I think it's perfectly reasonable to question their judgement on that alone.

 

[rjack321]

They likely tried it because they heard it was a fun one way trip. Used to be, from what I understand. But even if there hadn't been a collapse, we're still talking about doing a blind downstream one way traverse with significant flow with no experience in the system or local knowledge. I think it's perfectly reasonable to question their judgement on that alone.

Well the especially sad part is that the exit end at the headspring is only a short walk away form Catfish and not deep. Although the in ear to eye distance in Ginnie is super short as well.

 

[chillyinCanada]

They likely tried it because they heard it was a fun one way trip. Used to be, from what I understand. But even if there hadn't been a collapse, we're still talking about doing a blind downstream one way traverse with significant flow with no experience in the system or local knowledge. I think it's perfectly reasonable to question their judgement on that alone.

Please read the terms and conditions for this subforum

 

[PfcAJ]

Please read the terms and conditions for this subforum

Just read the terms and conditions of this sub forum.

whats the issue with what helo wrote?

is it that far fetched to question the judgement of a team of divers who violate basic rules of cave diving?

 

[helodriver87]

Please read the terms and conditions for this subforum

Done. I assume the implication here is that I broke a rule, but I'm not seeing it. The facts are clear. They did a blind one way traverse with major flow and no experience in the system. That directly contributed to the outcome. You don't usually get contributing factors that clear.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Done. I assume the implication here is that I broke a rule, but I'm not seeing it. The facts are clear. They did a blind one way traverse with major flow and no experience in the system. That directly contributed to the outcome. You don't usually get contributing factors that clear.

Mishap analysis & "Blamestorming"

 

[helodriver87]

Mishap analysis & "Blamestorming"

"Mishap analysis would identify those actions as causes, and recommend other actions that would prevent (or greatly reduce the chance of) the mishap in the future."

Blind traverse. No experience in the system. No apparent plan to verify the exit or return if necessary. No consideration of the flow at the exit. All contributing actions. All clearly identifiable mistakes that can be learned from.