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Diver missing on Spiegel Grove - Key Largo Florida

Discussion in 'Accidents and Incidents' started by DandyDon, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. DoNotDstrb

    DoNotDstrb Divemaster

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Palm Beach, FL

    Perhaps...... what I said is that I didn't feel anything.

    That particular dive was a wall dive on the south coast of Puerto Rico. I was shooting stills and video the whole dive. After reviewing the footage and still images, I am also fairly sure there were no memory lapses, time compression or anything else like that.

    That said.... nothing out of the ordinary happened that would require me to "think on the spot" or make choices in an emergency where some choices would be fatal. I am open to the possibility that I could have been happily and completely stoned, had no idea that I was, and at the same time I was able to perform all the normal routine tasks that I always do when diving.
    openmindOW likes this.
  2. Doppler

    Doppler Dive Equipment Manufacturer


    I think that's the point that we're trying to get across to people really, mate. If you read my little rant about gas toxicity you'll notice that it mentions the vagaries of narcosis. Frankly, I think someone stating that at X feet or whatever (it's usually a yank that says it so X feet illustrates the point) narcosis is so bad it's like being drunk behind the wheel, either has **** for brains or is a lemming following some dogma feed to them by a cult as weirdly off focus as any promising salvation and eternal life. Oh, and occasionally they are neither and they are simply forgetting to add to their summary of something that actually happened to them: "That's my experience, your mileage may vary."

    Narcosis is totally unpredictable and if we tell people it starts at such and such, human nature being what it is, they will not pay attention at X-feet minus one and wind up in trouble. So many other things play a role that I sometimes believe that depth is immaterial.

    As you mentioned, if all goes well, no issues. When the rottweilers hit the fan though, all bets are off... however, if that happens, I do not feel that any amount of helium is going to AUTOMATICALLY save your arse and pull you out of the toxic waste like a magic fairy. Survival is more complicated than that.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2013
  3. TSandM

    TSandM Missed and loved by many. Rest in Peace

    I agree, Steve, but my experience is that, if you have enough helium in your gas, you may not make the mistakes that let the Rottweilers loose in the first place . . .
    openmindOW likes this.
  4. Doppler

    Doppler Dive Equipment Manufacturer

    But I believe all tricks that make sure the "hounds of Hell" stay in their kennel take place on the surface... including choosing the right mix for the dive. I just want it to be clear that helium (plus or minus) does not compensate for lack of planning, practice and paying attention to the locks on those cages.
    openmindOW and TSandM like this.
  5. openmindOW

    openmindOW HSA Instructor

  6. boulderjohn

    boulderjohn Technical Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Boulder, CO
    The "please" refers to my offer to provide details of knowing that I was suffering from narcosis even though I did not feel it. I have a couple of stories. Here is one.

    I was in the engine room of a wreck in Truk Lagoon at about 100 feet with a dive buddy and a guide. We were on EANx 32. As we were exiting through a hole in a wall, I noticed a small pipe sticking down from the upper right corner of the opening, like a finger pointing down. I saw the guide go through the opening, and I alertly thought, "It would be easy to catch my regulator hose on that pipe. I should be careful." (At that time I was still diving with a conventional rig, with a single regulator hose over my right shoulder, an alternate under my right arm, and an spg under my left arm.) My buddy went through next, and, sure enough, he caught his regulator hose on the pipe, and I watched as he pulled it down to free himself. I then went through and caught my regulator hose on the pipe. When I did, I wondered: "What hose have I caught? Is it the regulator hose or the spg hose? Do I pull it down or lift it up to free myself?"

    As I asked myself these questions, I had a moment of lucidity in which I thought, "These are really easy questions. I should know the answers to these questions. I must be narced."

    I figured it out.

    I want to stress that I felt perfectly fine. If I had not caught my hose on the pipe, I would have completed the dive feeling fine and without any incident at all. I could have sworn I had had no narcosis whatsoever.
  7. Steve_C

    Steve_C Divemaster

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Raleigh, NC USA
  8. FinnMom

    FinnMom Divemaster Staff Member

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Finland
    I haven't had 100s and 100s of dives but I've been below 35m at least a couple dozen times. And like a lot of folks I've talked to, I've never noticed any narcosis. I just figured that narcosis is like all the drunks I've seen (college graduate i.e. some level of expert ;-) swear that they were "fine, just fine" or "maybe a just a teeny bit tipsy" when they were well & truely pickled.
    boulderjohn, fisheater and DandyDon like this.
  9. socompsp

    socompsp Angel Fish

    This is Joe's son, i would like to answer some of your questions by providing the info i can release at the moment, as the investigation has not been closed yet.

    My father was a diver of 32 years and was certified to penetrate.
    They did have an extensive plan. and was equipped properly for said plan, which is the only reason jim could go back twice and still be living today, but was not prepared for all emergency situations which is evident.
    both jim and my father were diving with 80cft aluminum and 10l ponies. nitrox mixes: 29% in main and 45% for deco.
    The fact of the matter is that we will never know exactly what happened, what i can say at the moment is that narcosis was a factor, i can go into further detail at the end of next week when Deb closes her investigation.
    i would like to make it clear, that we all understand that it was his choice and his alone to do what he did. we never thought for a second to blame jim, or the dive boat crew. we as divers all know there is a known risk in the sport we mutually enjoy. things go wrong, and sometimes are not in our control. in the coming week i can answer more of your questions, like dive times, questions about the reel and such. as for now this is all the information i am able to release.
    Thanks, Joe II
  10. MMM

    MMM Giant Squid Staff Member

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Sask. Canada/Cozumel, MX

    A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

    Off topic and/or irrelevant posts have been deleted. Please remember the special rules of this forum. Marg, SB Senior Moderator

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