Diver Missing Race Rocks BC, Canada

[5 fish]

To avoid misunderstanding the family intention, please read my post to JohnnyC. May I also add that [FONT=&quot]Race Rocks is not dangerous at any time, it is those who bring divers there at any time who are making this site dangerous . [/FONT]

 

[Divetech99]

Just curious as to what information the family was requesting from PADI that PADI declined to provide? It seems that PADI can only provide certification dates and instructor name. But this kind of info is available to any PADI pro through DiveCheck. Instructors are not required by PADI to submit any student records or exams to PADI during certification.

The only document that is relevant and in the possession of PADI would be the incident report from the PADI DM. But that document should have been given to the authorities.

 

[JohnnyC]

To avoid misunderstanding the family intention, please read my post to JohnnyC. May I also add that [FONT=&amp]Race Rocks is not dangerous at any time, it is those who bring divers there at any time who are making this site dangerous . [/FONT]

I did read your response, and have read the intentions of the family. They want legislation that holds dive ops accountable for the actions of their divers, despite those diver actions being completely out of their control. I think you fail to see that the intentions of the family have consequences that reach far further than any that they might intend. They are not divers, they clearly do not understand many many aspects of scuba diving. They are espousing their knee-jerk reaction to the death of their loved one, without understanding either the consequences of those desires, nor the practicality of trying to implement a plan such as theirs.

Why do you (since you seem to agree with the family) think mandating a dive operation provide gps (useless), PLB's (which the family clearly doesn't understand their functionality or limitations), or restricting access to dive sites based on whatever level of diving the diver says they are capable of, in any way solves the problem? People have their AOW card with 10 dives under in their log book, people who have been "diving since Christ was a corporal" have terrible buoyancy issues, and all of them are certified to dive those sites. Qualified? No, but how do you qualify someone when the certification is supposed to guarantee adequate skill levels for the dives they want to do. Try to get PADI to turn AOW into an actual advanced course and tell me how far you get. At that point they want to legislate the dive operators based on the inadequacy of someone else's training. How do you propose that a dive op subjectively rate someone with those qualifications? How do you make them prove that they are capable of making the dive? I'm full cave, I guarantee there's not a dive op in BC that would tell my I couldn't dive Race Rocks, regardless of whether or not I have actual experience in cold, swift water. So how do you legislate that? I would be just as likely to have an issue as anyone else, so how do you want to hold the dive shop liable?

Again, I feel for them, but none of their proposed solutions actually make divers any safer. All of the technological changes they would like to see implemented are impractical if the diver isn't skilled enough to put himself in a position in which they can be used. All of the legislative changes they would like to see implemented are still predicated on the individual diver himself being upfront with their skill level (or lack thereof) and again, will simply restrict all divers, regardless of skill level. You start putting legal restrictions based on subjective interpretation of the qualifications of a specific diver and their ability to handle a dive site, and you might as well just ban scuba diving at those sites. No dive operation is going to want to put themselves in a situation where they are liable because a diver may or may not have an incident.

Let's use the Andrea Doria as an example as it's an excellent correlation both in being a potentially tricky dive, as well as having a history of incidents involved. Dive operators specifically vet their clients to ensure that they are capable of making the specific dive. They call dives due to many factors, be it weather, current, visibility, etc. Diver STILL die on the Andrea Doria. There are divers who die that are far more qualified than 99.9% of the scuba divers in the world. None of those restrictions would have saved their lives, and adding new restrictions still won't save their lives. People still die on shallow reefs in tropical waters. Wes Skiles died in 70ft. of water. There is no legislation directed at the dive operator that would have saved his life. There is no legislation that could be directed at the Wahoo/Garloo, Seeker, or John Jack that would have saved any of the lives that have been lost diving off those boats over the years.

At the end of the day, the only way to guarantee that a scuba diver is 100% free from possible incident, is to stay on the boat. The family's desire is to force legislation that makes divers stay on the boat at the discretion of the dive ops, which they already do. Would you ban diving on the Doria because the taxpayers have to finance search and rescue operations in the Northeast?

Another example that has touched everyone here is the recent loss of Lynne, TsandM. She was an excellent diver, incredibly skilled, incredibly safe, and by all accounts one of the least likely to perish in our sport. Despite all of this, she had an issue and unfortunately succumbed to that issue(s). None of what the family desires as far as legislating dive operators would have prevented her death, just as no amount of legislation would have prevented the death of their loved one, except maybe outlawing scuba diving.

They have good intentions, unfortunately they are SEVERELY misguided to think that anything they have proposed would have a positive impact on the dive community. Counter to that, what they propose would have a profound negative impact on both diving in general, as well as the dive operators that make diving available, potentially to the point where dive operators simply quit their business as the strain of remaining in compliance with an incredibly subjective piece of legislation is too difficult to remain profitable.

 

[scubasteeeve]

Well for starters I have yet to see a GPS device that works under water let alone an inexpensive one as described in the letter. There are several inaccuracies in the family statement. For one much of race rocks is sheltered from the current and unlike some more exposed sites there is no way the scuba police could regulate when to call a dive there or anywhere else.
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Additionally there are a host of conditions that I would thumb and would surely kill me that many others would be perfectly capable of handing. Especially on the pacific coast since my experience is almost exclusively Caribbean. What I'm saying is whether conditions are safe or not is dependent on experience and skill in many cases rather than conditions themselves.



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[MarkH]

My guess, based on my own attempts to go on the charters is that the regular dive trips to race Rocks are cancelled probably at least 30% of the time due to conditions (usually wind). The Race Rocks islands group acts as a current shadow so there is usually always somewhere diveable there even when the current is running strongly. On a flooding current, you can dive on parts of the East side of the islands and on an ebb, on the West side. I've often been there when the current tables are showing more than a few knots of current and I didn't feel any. If you leave the current shadow, yes the current is usually too strong to swim against. Anchoring is illegal there, so all dive boats are "live" and motor over to pick you up wherever you surface. I've never been there when a fog rolled in, but this could make the pickup difficult. The best dive sites (in my opinion) in the Race Rocks group, like the West Race wall, are only diveable at slack.

 

[vancouverdiver]

The purpose of this forum is to discuss the incident, attempt to determine causes, learn from it, and consider what can be done in future to prevent it. This accident is not only tragic, but troubling. In post #26 the family reports that they were told TC was last seen trying to remove his weight belt. This implies he was having difficulty in ascending and wanted to get positively buoyant. He was either overweighted, had a massive first stage failure that prevented the inflation of BC or suit, or he was out of air. It sounds like they fought the current, so one could speculate that TC's sac rate shot through the roof fighting the current rather than going with the current. In post #6 they were trying to ascend together. In post #26 the DM, held on to kelp, fixing his position. TC would then likely be taken away by the current while struggling with the belt. So what to learn from this possible scenario? Monitor your air, and your dive buddies air. Ascend together. Don't fight the current. Don't hold onto the kelp and lose your buddy. Drifting in a fast current is initially unnerving, but it is actually quite a lot of fun to "fly" over the terrain viewing the terrain. Blow a bag for the charter to follow, and ascend safely. If your buddy is trying to take off his weight belt, that suggests he is in dire condition. Assuming it is safe to do so, go to him and render assistance. Very sad for the family, and the DM who must be badly hurting as well. Like most accidents, this sounds so avoidable.
As TC has been found, it will be interesting to see if info is released from his computer and how far he made it up towards the surface. His weighting if any on his BC, how much gas he had. There was likely other people on the charter as they would not go out with just one paying customer. It would be helpful if they could comment on how bad the currents were in such a large exchange. Lastly, I have dove with Ogden where there were two groups of us. One group got to dive, and the the second group could not as poor weather moving in and Ogden cancelled the charter. So my point here, is that my experience shows they will cancel if the weather/tides is not conducive for diving. Sometimes, it is hard to predict what mother nature will do.
Just to clarify, I'm not laying blame. After every dive, I reflect back on what happened and what could have been done better. Quite often, I conclude there are things my buddy & I could have done better. That's how we become better divers. Safe diving!

 

[KevinNM]

If he really paid for a DM who was experienced with this site and the dive op gave him an unpaid inexperienced DM seems to suggest something not good about that operation.

 

[wedivebc]

If he really paid for a DM who was experienced with this site and the dive op gave him an unpaid inexperienced DM seems to suggest something not good about that operation.

I haven't met too many DMs that were't unpaid and inexperienced.

 

[Shinythings]

I haven't met too many DMs that were't unpaid and inexperienced.

I'm sure you know that locally some shops hold much higher standards for their DM's than others.

I know there were many people locally not surprised that this happened. Race Rocks is one of my least favourite places to take new divers and I generally try to avoid it - especially for those new to drysuit diving.

 

[wedivebc]

I'm sure you know that locally some shops hold much higher standards for their DM's than others.

I know there were many people locally not surprised that this happened. Race Rocks is one of my least favourite places to take new divers and I generally try to avoid it - especially for those new to drysuit diving.

I wonder if Ogden might be more particular about who goes out there in the future?