Diver Rescue

[Troutmaster]

Like most things, rescue skills should start in OW training and improve from there. At a minimum, OW students need to talk about and try some low-impact rescues.

As the dive training levels increase, so should the rescue skills. In my tech training my instructor intentinally entanged himself and then "paniced". This was half way through a dive without warning. That and the other rescue "drills" we did made me feel pretty solid about rescues including doing a deco stop with an unconcious diver in tow.

 

[DCBC]

PADI (and other agencies) allow students to DECIDE when they are ready. They have the option of doing rescue at the initial stage, or delaying it until they feel ready.

That's not true Andy and you know it. PADI Divers not only have to complete OW, but AOW as well before they can take the rescue skills that instructors from other agencies must impart in their OW class. These are PADI prerequisites to rescue diver training, or have things changed?? Allowing them to decide when they're ready? Balderdash. Do you ask them when they are ready to learn how to share air??? You teach them the skills that are necessary and reasonable.

I don't want to sound argumentative, but IF the majority of divers did feel rescue skills were vital at entry-level, then they would chose to get those skills at that point. But they don't..regardless of what your unscientific mini-poll here states.

It is starting to sound that way Andy. But I like a good discussion. But I like to think it's leading somewhere. Do you really think that we are going to convince one another to change our minds?

Rescue skills ARE required in many agencies. This isn't an election, it's standards. We have no more choice from teaching them, than you do when PADI prohibits them from being included in an OW program.

My complements to you for combining programs. You must feel that this is necessary to give the diver what is required.

PADI has a different standard for it's divers than some other organizations. It's up to the individual instructor to decide upon which training philosophy they agree with.

BTW, one or two studies are not enough to convince me to abandon 45 years of diving experience and common sense. I've had to intervene too often because a diver's buddy didn't know what to do.

That's open to debate. Sometimes a little knowledge is a bad thing. This could certainly be true of introducing, but not fully teaching, rescue skills...

I suppose it could be true, but I don't believe this to be applicable in this situation.

I agree! But when considering the necessity and prioritisation of training components (as this thread is doing), it is vital to consider the likely diving circumstances, accident analysis and historical statistics appropriate to that activity.

I believe what is being done by some certification agencies is an active development of a timeline that's best suited to marketing their programs to the public. Which, from a business perspective is intelligent (but not necessarily from an educational perspective). The next step was to decide what the priorities are to fit within this timeline... Other agencies are less restrictive and look at things a bit differently. Regardless of timeline, what skill-sets are reasonable for an OW diver to possess? The course is then designed to accommodate what's required. It doesn't surprize me that the requirements for one course are different than another. Again, we come down to training philosophy.

All that those organisations say at the moment is that most accidents could be prevented by proper adherance to SAFE DIVING PRACTICES. Prevention NOT cure. I agree with that.

As do I. I just believe that giving "independent divers" rescue skills is the reasonable thing to do.

 

[RU4SKUBA]

Philosophically there are good arguments for each side. Fundamentally, I cannot get over the idea that introducing too much information --from an educational standpoint-- will have an adverse affect on the new learner at an early stage.

I'd be interested in statistics on how many accidents are complicated by incompetent rescue attempts and how many people drown (or are injured) attempting them.

 

[DCBC]

...As the dive training levels increase, so should the rescue skills. In my tech training my instructor intentinally entanged himself and then "paniced". This was half way through a dive without warning. That and the other rescue "drills" we did made me feel pretty solid about rescues including doing a deco stop with an unconcious diver in tow.

What course requires "Rescue Diver" as a prerequisite for technical training? Please advise the agency involved. Obviously your instructor believed in rescue skills, but why would he think that you knew what to do?

 

[DCBC]

...Fundamentally, I cannot get over the idea that introducing too much information --from an educational standpoint-- will have an adverse affect on the new learner at an early stage.

I share your concern, however task loading is something that's manageable. It does however take more time than the duration of some programs allow and as such, I understand (priorities being what they are) that it's left out of these training programs.

The fact remains however, that for decades, these skills were included within the basic diving requirements for all of the training agencies of which I'm aware. This has changed whereby not all agencies agree that it is required before the diver is certified to dive independently.

 

[marinediva]

Found these recently was an interesting read.
Recreational scuba diving equipment problems, morbidity and mortality: an overview of the Diving Incident Monitoring Study and Project Stickybeak
Rubicon Research Repository: Item 123456789/7761

An evaluation of buoyancy jacket safety in 1,000 diving incidents.Rubicon Research Repository: Item 123456789/6288
Rubicon Research Repository: Search Results.

 

[DevonDiver]

What course requires "Rescue Diver" as a prerequisite for technical training? Please advise the agency involved. Obviously your instructor believed in rescue skills, but why would he think that you knew what to do?

DSAT Tec Rec program requires Rescue Diver as a prerequisite:
Tec Deep Diver Course Prerequisites

You must:

• Be a PADI Advanced Open Water Diver (or hold a qualifying certification from another organization)
• Be a PADI Rescue Diver (or hold a qualifying certification from another organization)
• Be a PADI Enriched Air Diver (or hold a qualifying certification from another organization)
• Have a minimum of 100 logged dives, of which
  · 20 dives must be enriched air dives
  · 25 dives must be deeper than 18 metres/60 feet
  · at least 20 dives must be deeper than 30 metres/100 feet
• Be at least 18 years old
• Have a medical statement signed by your physician

 

[TSandM]

GUE requires rescue skills before technical training, because rescue skills are part of Fundamentals, which is a prerequisite for GUE technical classes. I believe UTD teaches toxing diver rescue in their Intro to Tech class, which has a similar role in their curriculum.

I have been compulsively reading accident and incident reports for the last five years. I cannot think of an accident where someone died because their buddy could not get them to the surface. We did have an incident here in Puget Sound, where a diver who got separated from his buddies was found by another team, unresponsive and not breathing on the bottom. The initial folks who found him were unable to get him to the surface -- he was profoundly overweighted, apparently, and out of gas. Given the time line, it's almost certain that he would not have been successfully resuscitated, even if they had brought him up when he was found.

I think it's likely, although one could never prove it, that in the majority of mild to moderate problems underwater, ones dive buddy is able to provide enough assistance to prevent an accident, and so we never hear about those cases. I have certainly read a few where a diver made it to the surface and did not drop weights, and my vague memory is that in one of those cases, the diver had a buddy and the buddy was in distress as well, something I'm not sure a Rescue class would have helped.

In the thousand or so dives I have done, I have had ONE incident where someone had to assist another diver, and that was a student in an OW class unrelated to us or what we were doing, who got separated from his class and his instructor and was on the surface in passive panic. Leaving aside the fact that no OW student should be on the surface alone and panicked, it wasn't difficult to assist him -- we made him buoyant, and one of us went down to talk to his instructor about him being up there. Experience as divers, rather than Rescue training, was what helped us that day.

Rescue is a great class -- don't get me wrong. I think everybody who dives should take some kind of rescue training. But not teaching an extensive rescue component in open water simply doesn't seem like a huge issue to me. You're taught to provide gas and get to the surface, and how to tow someone who can no longer swim for themselves. I think that's enough. I know that there are some on this board, including this thread's OP, who disagree quite violently with me. It's fine to disagree, but I'm perturbed with the last few posts here. If this thread turns into yet another PADI-bashing rant, I can guarantee you that it will be moderated, and quite likely closed.

So long as we were discussing classes in the abstract, we were fine. Watch the line, guys; you're close to crossing it.

 

[DCBC]

DSAT Tec Rec program requires Rescue Diver as a prerequisite...

Rescue Diver is not required for the majority of technical agencies: CMAS, GUE, UTD, NAUI or TDI.

 

[xjeslesx]

I'de call that a body recovery, and I don't teach that till Rescue.

I'd say you are wrong. Treat every rescue like you are recovering a live person, not a body. Best case scenario you save a life.