Diver Training, Has It Really Been Watered Down???

[boulderjohn]

No question about it--you had to have superior physical skills to complete the course back then. Doing pushups by the poolside with all your gear on was a common sight. It was in many ways like boot camp. Many people failed to meet those requirements and could not be certified. Please explain why those requirements are critical to basic OW diving.

Please explain why those superior swimming skills, including swimming laps over and over again, are so in modern scuba.

Buddy breathing has already been talked about--it did take many many, many repetitions to get that down. Buddy breathing has been replaced by alternate air sources, so it is not longer a part of the course.

Once again, we see the mantra repeated: "We spent many more hours listening to lectures, so what we had was superior!" Since that has been answered many, many times in the this thread already, I won't bother going over it again.

 

[tkaelin]

amen

 

[MrBigfins]

I did my OW with relearning, then my referral out of country. There were 2 of us students in the DR, the other student hadn't done the elearning. I was able to sit in for his classroom portion, I personally was better suited to elearning.

I then did my AOW with my LDS in PA, quarry dives. I was much more impressed with the "class work" for my AOW. I know not the same as OW, but exemplified the difference in instructors. I also feel that the complications that cold, freshwater diving presented made for better overall learning. Our deep dive was to 90' at 46 degrees with 20' vis, I feel that learning in that environment makes it easier to do a 90' dive in warm water with 60' vis confidently.

My son is going for his open water certification starting tomorrow with my LDS. I opted for class work for him because I feel the personal interaction better suits his personality, and I am comfortable with the quality of the instructors. The course is 4-4 hour sessions and then a weekend of open water dives in the quarry. Again I think if you learn to dive in inferior conditions, ie cold water low vis etc that it will make you a better diver in optimal conditions. I will update my opinions after he has completed his class.

 

[Bob DBF]

There is one other thing to point out about the typical comparison of classes 40-50 years ago to classes today. People focus on the total time the courses took. I have already pointed out that this assumes that the time spent on lectures was an advantage somehow, but those same comparisons usually omit the time spent on home study in the modern course completely, as if academic instruction has been omitted entirely. Why is it that time being led by the instructor is the only time that counts in a comparison?

Never had a lecture during a my OW class, or when I learned to dive decades before.

No question about it--you had to have superior physical skills to complete the course back then. Doing pushups by the poolside with all your gear on was a common sight. It was in many ways like boot camp.

Never had that either, but being physically fit is not detrimental to diving, I never actually saw push-ups poolside , but I wasn't in every class.

Buddy breathing has already been talked about--it did take many many, many repetitions to get that down. Buddy breathing has been replaced by alternate air sources, so it is not longer a part of the course.

As I said before, it is not necessary now, but was the only game in town for quite some time. When it was nessary, I and the divers around me were pretty good at it, but were were not everyone.

Once again, we see the mantra repeated: "We spent many more hours listening to lectures, so what we had was superior!" Since that has been answered many, many times in the this thread already,

I didn't have to ever listen to a lecture. What made my training superior was the extensive time spent in the water, and the open discussions of diving with the instructor.


Bob

 

[tom lauder]

I find this discussion very interesting as a returning diver who is changing agencies. My initial certification was with ScotSAC in the UK in the mid 90s. It was a club structure not pay to play it took a number of months of class and pool time to qualify. As described by some others there was a min swim test and mandatory snorkel tests before you got near tanks. I did all the things described by others: doff surface, dive, don, buddy breathing both in the pool and in the open water, rescue tows. There was a certain amount of mask ripping, and valve closing involved but never in malice and certainly not with the military boot camp attitude some describe. I learned to be confident in the water and of my gear and buddies. My previous diving was done in Scottish waters where viz was often measured in inches and 6C was considered warm water. I felt well prepared for those conditions with the training i had then.

Im doing the pre reading right now for my PADI O/W and honestly the content so far seems pretty thin compared to my previous training. It may be that given modern equipment, computers and the prevalence of resort diving that the academics are less important but I find it difficult to see an equivalent level of confidence developed in a weekend.

I'll reserve full judgement till I've completed the course.

Tom

 

[AfterDark]

I find this discussion very interesting as a returning diver who is changing agencies. My initial certification was with ScotSAC in the UK in the mid 90s. It was a club structure not pay to play it took a number of months of class and pool time to qualify. As described by some others there was a min swim test and mandatory snorkel tests before you got near tanks. I did all the things described by others: doff surface, dive, don, buddy breathing both in the pool and in the open water, rescue tows. There was a certain amount of mask ripping, and valve closing involved but never in malice and certainly not with the military boot camp attitude some describe. I learned to be confident in the water and of my gear and buddies. My previous diving was done in Scottish waters where viz was often measured in inches and 6C was considered warm water. I felt well prepared for those conditions with the training i had then.

Im doing the pre reading right now for my PADI O/W and honestly the content so far seems pretty thin compared to my previous training. It may be that given modern equipment, computers and the prevalence of resort diving that the academics are less important but I find it difficult to see an equivalent level of confidence developed in a weekend.

I'll reserve full judgement till I've completed the course.

Tom

We'll be awaiting your final comparison upon completion of the course.

I recall taking the nitrox course. Because I learned the material necessary to understand the what, how, and why of nitrox 50years ago I never opened a book, dozed off in class (I was working 3rd shift art the time.) and aced the test. I'd say memory retention from those long boring lectures was pretty good after 45 years, at the time of the nitrox course. AOW was similar except I actually read the book because I've taken enough tests to know the tester is looking for specific answers containing key words so I wanted to make sure I was "on the same page" when I took the test.

Anyone have any resort certification experiences they'd like to share. Like my buddie's wife that was given an OW cert after 2 days training and was then offered a AOW cert. before they left if she wanted it. She's no Michelle Nelson either.

 

[USdiver1]

The diving industry has matured and many of the changes are due to this maturation. For example, we used to have the Council for National Cooperation in Aquatics [included YMCA, NAUI, PADI ] who produced a well respected and nearly universally used text, The New Science of Skin and Scuba Diving. IMO this textbook was more detailed and well-written than the privately available books from Jeppesen, PADI and NAUI. It provided sections on physics, physiology, environment, equipment, skills, marine life, all in all a more holistic view than today's texts. What it didn't do was contribute to the bottom line of NAUI, PADI or the other agencies who used it and then discarded it when they began publishing their own texts.

We had to be in better physical shape, as most of our diving was done locally. Be it a quarry, river, lake or ocean the majority of our dives were organized by local divers / dive clubs, and were shore based. There were few dive boats or live-aboards with professional crews who could assist and guide divers, except for a special destination such as California's Channel Islands or Florida Keys.

My training was over a college semester (12 or 13 weeks). It consisted of about 90-120 minutes of classroom and 60-90 minutes of pool time every week. We were expected to have already read the text and the classroom was dedicated to problem solving / possible scenarios and theoretical knowledge of diving. The pool emphasized watermanship, I don't think we even began using scuba until week 5 or 6. We were trained in Double and single hose regulators, orally inflated horse collar vests, buddy breathing, equipment doff and don, underwater harassment [ having the DM take off your mask or remove the regulator from your mouth] all designed to improve the student's self-confidence / water skills. A C-card was earned then, and I had/have no qualms about diving with anyone trained in that era.

Equipment has advanced since the 1960s, the industry has developed, but the training has also changed, and does not necessarily produce the self-reliant, dependable divers it once did.

 

[boulderjohn]

My training was over a college semester (12 or 13 weeks). It consisted of about 90-120 minutes of classroom and 60-90 minutes of pool time every week. We were expected to have already read the text and the classroom was dedicated to problem solving / possible scenarios and theoretical knowledge of diving.

Most colleges still offer full semester OW classes. They are taught through a variety of agencies, including NAUI, PADI, SSI, etc.

 

[captain]

The front and back of my 1070 YMCA C card. Required skills are on the back.I can't recall doing chins or mile run or hops, we may have done push ups. We completed all the swimming requirements. I had been diving 10 years prior to taking the class.

 

[Bob DBF]

For example, we used to have the Council for National Cooperation in Aquatics [included YMCA, NAUI, PADI ] who produced a well respected and nearly universally used text, The New Science of Skin and Scuba Diving.

The book The Science of Skin and Scuba Diving, published in '57, predates both NAUI and PADI. The first revision, around '62, inserted the New into the title. The book was written due to the lack of good training material for diving at that time.

"This book was initiated by a number of skin and scuba diving enthusiasts who met during the Fourth Annual Meeting of the Conference for National Cooperation in Aquatics, at Yale University, in 1954. It was the consensus that the fast growing interest in skin and scuba diving called for a handbook which should be written by authorities and a committee of CNCA was charged with the responsibility of producing such a text."

@Sam Miller III may have more information.