Diver Training, Has It Really Been Watered Down???

[wetb4igetinthewater]

My understanding is that back in the day, pretty much everyone was taught on their knees and were overweighted as a result. For those who have taught that way, we have observed students corking and cratering as a result of us overweighting them.

Now in 2011 @boulderjohn and other PADI instructors (@Diver0001, @Peter Guy are two) had an article published in PADI’s training journal. In my book, that is a big deal as PADI is by far the largest agency in the world.

I won’t claim that they were the first instructors to teach neutral buoyancy, but they were the first to get the discussion on a global scale (in my view).

Fortunately, a lot of instructors have adopted teaching this way (unfortunately it is not mandated by all agencies, just RAID and the DIR ones).

I would argue that teaching buoyancy, trim, and zeroing in on the proper weight for an individual immediately are ways in which training today is superior to the best as students learn to perform task loading skills needed to prevent small problems from becoming big problems while . If students are stuck on their knees, then all I can say is “meh”

 

[captain]

My copy of The Science of Skin and Scuba Diving disappeared sometime over the last 65 years. I do still have the 1958 US Navy diving manual.
and a couple of other scuba instructional books from the 1960's.

 

[kelemvor]

That would make it part of a nitrox course, but even then, does anyone need to know Dalton's law to use Nitrox?

I think there is a struggle to come up with enough material to continue to justify "nitrox" as a separate course. IMO, nitrox should be merged into scuba diver classes as a short chapter.

Until it's merged you have to come up with something to justify the price, right?

 

[captain]

My understanding is that back in the day, pretty much everyone was taught on their knees and were overweighted as a result. For those who have taught that way, we have observed students corking and cratering as a result of us overweighting them.

Now in 2011 @boulderjohn and other PADI instructors (@Diver0001, @Peter Guy are two) had an article published in PADI’s training journal. In my book, that is a big deal as PADI is by far the largest agency in the world.

I won’t claim that they were the first instructors to teach neutral buoyancy, but they were the first to get the discussion on a global scale (in my view).

Fortunately, a lot of instructors have adopted teaching this way (unfortunately it is not mandated by all agencies, just RAID and the DIR ones).

I would argue that teaching buoyancy, trim, and zeroing in on the proper weight for an individual immediately are ways in which training today is superior to the best as students learn to perform task loading skills needed to prevent small problems from becoming big problems while . If students are stuck on their knees, then all I can say is “meh”

Realize back in the day BC's were not in common use. Buoyancy pretty much depended on proper weighting or no weigh at all especially in fresh water with no wet suit using the ubiquitous steel 72 of the time. I can maintain neutral buoyancy using the equipment of the time, mask, fins, regulator and tank. As a member of the vintage community I still on occasion dive that configuration.
Also most scuba students at the time entered the class as skin divers and spearfishermen.

 

[kelemvor]

I have never seen buddy breathing taught in an OW class, but if Egstrom's study was accurate, teaching them to do that competently must have taken a very long time.

Funny that you mention that. I recall doing the drills with an octo in OW class, but it was referred to as buddy breathing. I only learned about the "old" buddy breathing with one reg technique after reading about it here on scubaboard.

 

[Bob DBF]

Funny that you mention that. I recall doing the drills with an octo in OW class, but it was referred to as buddy breathing. I only learned about the "old" buddy breathing with one reg technique after reading about it here on scubaboard.

From my recollection the major move, although individuals used the configuration earlier, to carrying two second stages was in the '80's and by the '90's it was rare to see a diver without a second second stage. The term was then adapted to the "modern" divers and only corrected by us old pharts when we have nothing constructive to do. A number of other terms such as skin diver and free diver have morphed in meaning over time.


Bob

 

[USdiver1]

During my initial class in the spring of 1977, we performed all of our pool sessions with our scuba on backpack mounted 72s, no BCDs and only minimal weight, if any. For our check-out dives in open water, it was the same with the addition of a horse collar manually inflatable vest equipped with emergency CO2 for surface flotation. We used wetsuits, and were expected to perform a weight check for neutral buoyancy prior to submersion. The horse collar was not used for maintaining buoyancy underwater, only for surface flotation. Proper weighting was a key aspect of early training.

As a DM, when teaching in O/W I will weigh myself a bit heavy, so that I can 1) offer a couple of pounds of lead to a student who is too lightly weighted; and 2) provide that extra negative buoyancy in the case I have to prevent a too rapid ascent of a student who may panic.

Teaching the neutral buoyancy method is clearly advantageous to all involved, and should be practiced by more instructors and DMs.

 

[scubadada]

The front and back of my 1070 YMCA C card. Required skills are on the back.I can't recall doing chins or mile run or hops, we may have done push ups. We completed all the swimming requirements. I had been diving 10 years prior to taking the class.

View attachment 473828 View attachment 473829

Hi @captain

I got certified just a month before you, Basic Skin & Scuba Diving. Mine was a 30 hour course, though we spent more time than that. However, I did get a very modern embossed card

 

[TMHeimer]

I've been away for 8 weeks, but got some interesting info. from my brother over dinner. He's 75 and did some (shallow-maybe 30') diving for clams in L.I. Sound in the '60s. I asked if he was certified--No. How did you learn?--bought the stuff and taught myself. How did you get Air? Got it at a gas station downtown. They went out of business then I got it from another gas station.

 

[tom lauder]

So I completed my PADI O/W dive last weekend and thought I should come back and update my contribution.

So to address the original question has training been watered down? In my experience unquestionably. the work that went into my original certiication both academically and in the water was longer, more in depth and more challenging than what I have just completed. I have not been near diving for 20 years and I could answer all the knowledge reviews without thinking, That proves to me that teh lectures I attended and the rigorous exams I sat 20 years ago sank in and i actually learned the information. Within a short time of being back in the pool it all came back to me and the skills were no issue at all. My fellow students being completely new had to work a lot harder. In teh pool we had 1 instructor to 6 students IMO too high. In my previous training it was rarely more than 1 to 2. This meant that each student basically completed each skill once and then we moved on. While most students appeared to complete the skills to a reasonable level the first time there was no repetition.All my fellow students passed the pool and class portion without any real struggles. Of the 6 students on my class/pool section 1 didnt complete due to illness, the remaining 5 all passed. Of those 5 I was the only one with any intention of diving locally. The other 4 were getting referrals to complete elsewhere.

The question i actually have is does it matter that its been watered down? PADI is a business and it has a model that has made it the dominant player in its field. It would appear that the majority of divers are only interested in warm water vacation diving where they will be led and looked after by dive masters and operators. In that context no it really doesnt matter. The industry has grown by the addition of all those divers which has fuelled development in equipment and techniques. I have not found any statistics to show if injuries and fatalities have increased due to this explosion of vacation divers but I suspect I would have heard about it if it had.

For many divers and maybe the majority of SB thats not the type of diver they want to be, so that leads people to explore TDI, GUE etc. Having read the opening of the GUE fundies book it speaks very much to the kind of diver I would like to be. I have no issue with the shop that I did my training with, the instructors were good and experienced. My pool instructor is pursuing an upgrade for me with PADI training based on my previous certification so all in all i'm happy. Given that there doesnt seem to be much of a GUE thing happening where I am I will still dive with my local shop but I will have to consider carefully where any training money goes in future as i dont like the PADI pay to play model.

Sorry its a bit wordy but I thought i should follow up

Tom

I find this discussion very interesting as a returning diver who is changing agencies. My initial certification was with ScotSAC in the UK in the mid 90s. It was a club structure not pay to play it took a number of months of class and pool time to qualify. As described by some others there was a min swim test and mandatory snorkel tests before you got near tanks. I did all the things described by others: doff surface, dive, don, buddy breathing both in the pool and in the open water, rescue tows. There was a certain amount of mask ripping, and valve closing involved but never in malice and certainly not with the military boot camp attitude some describe. I learned to be confident in the water and of my gear and buddies. My previous diving was done in Scottish waters where viz was often measured in inches and 6C was considered warm water. I felt well prepared for those conditions with the training i had then.

Im doing the pre reading right now for my PADI O/W and honestly the content so far seems pretty thin compared to my previous training. It may be that given modern equipment, computers and the prevalence of resort diving that the academics are less important but I find it difficult to see an equivalent level of confidence developed in a weekend.

I'll reserve full judgement till I've completed the course.

Tom