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Diving and Seamanship

Discussion in 'Basic Scuba Discussions' started by Akimbo, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. jeffsky29

    jeffsky29 Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Delray Beach, Florida
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    My question post was 3 posts total - question, answer and me confirming the answer to be correct.

    The nitpicking from tursiops and now you, has turned this into 8 posts.

    So chill and move on.
     
  2. IDNeon357

    IDNeon357 Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
    Location: Nevada
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    This kind of gimmickry is not wrong, legally, but logically it's completely flawed.

    A German can be an excellent sailor and not speak a lick of English, but if you insist they speak only English, they will appear incompetent to you by your methodology regardless of the facts.

    While industry vocabulary can be a measuring stick, I'm not sure it's the best.
     
  3. IDNeon357

    IDNeon357 Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
    Location: Nevada
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    Are traction splints even on boats? That would be the biggest one to have available. Simple enough a monkey can use it, but probably going to be the single biggest stopper of loss of blood as far as bone breaks go.
     
  4. Scuba Lawyer

    Scuba Lawyer Barracuda

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Laguna Beach, California
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    I have no clue what "gimmickry" you are referring to. If a person is going to operate a vessel in navigable US waters, a lack of knowledge of basic seamanship terms shows utter ignorance to the laws of the sea. Operating a boat is not an "industry." It requires basic seamanship. I never insisted anyone speak only English. Do not fabricate my words. I also never said testing a deponent's knowledge of the sailor's vernacular is the best "measuring stick." However, I firmly believe lack of basic seamanship knowledge shows through clearly when a boat operator doesn't know port from starboard, or bow from stern. If I were to take the deposition of a person who spoke only German and their negligent piloting of a vessel in US waters caused the death of someone or the destruction of the vessel, I would certainly expect them to explain to me such basic things as steuerbord, freibord, unterschied zwischen magnetischem Norden und wahrem Norden..... and have a basic understanding of seemannschaft in whatever language they use. How many weekend boaters, or even those who venture offshore are familiar with the Rules of the Road (22 Code of Federal Regulations 83), let alone COLREGS Demarcation Lines and related regulations. When you get your OUPV license, come back and we can have an intelligent discussion. :)
     
    NothingClever and Protondecay123 like this.
  5. IDNeon357

    IDNeon357 Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
    Location: Nevada
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    I'm only commenting on the logic used, but your experience may be completely sound and reasonable. Whether or not someone learns the language of the trade probably is a good indicator of whether or not they learn the trade at all.

    But logically, whether a person can effectively communicate is not necessarily indicative of their capability of performing skills. The use of English versus German is just an arbitrary example. In vernacular, versus nautical vocabulary/terminology, the person may be able to demonstrate complete competence at skills based decisions.
     
    Scuba Lawyer likes this.
  6. Wookie

    Wookie Secret Field Agent ScubaBoard Business Sponsor

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    The international language of the sea is English. All radio operators must have a grasp of english to communicate on the radio, and therefore all vessel masters in the World must speak English. Deposing them in English is completely legit.
     
    Wingy, Akimbo and Scuba Lawyer like this.
  7. IDNeon357

    IDNeon357 Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
    Location: Nevada
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    If someone only speaks only German, then the requirement to communicate a skill in English is illogical. But to generalize this statement I later change the terms to vernacular and nautical terms. Which gets the point across sufficiently.
     
  8. Wookie

    Wookie Secret Field Agent ScubaBoard Business Sponsor

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    Which brings us full circle. If someone speaks only German, they are not qualified to conduct marine radio traffic, and therefore shouldn’t be navigating a vessel.
     
  9. IDNeon357

    IDNeon357 Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
    Location: Nevada
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    It's an example that goes right over your head.

    It's irrelevant if they speak only German, they could speak gibberish. And you could be asking them in Counter-gibberish "can you turn a wrench?"

    And they can be unable to effectively communicate to you AND STILL TURN THE WRENCH.

    It is therefore illogical to assume that a person's competency is based upon their ability to communicate.

    This doesn't qualify the statement whether it is legally required to be able to communicate to be competent, which is a separate question.

    And why I'm qualifying my statement as I have previously.
     
  10. Akimbo

    Akimbo Lift to Freedom Volunteer Staff Member ScubaBoard Supporter

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    @IDNeon357

    One of the subjects of the OP (Original Post in this thread) is about the value of understanding maritime vocabulary.

    A good deal of seamanship related to maneuvering and safety is all about communications -- electronically, visually (flags, colors, lights, buoys, navigation, etc.), and audibally. It would be difficult to understand these complex signals without picking up the vocabulary. A third-world skipper of a fishing panga might be competent when alone on a familiar body of water but you probably don't want them in command of your dive boat.
     

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