Diving, Fitness, Obesity and Personal Rights

[BRT]

You're supposed to dive within your abilities. It could be a grossly over-weight diver, an old diver with limiting strength who can't get up or down the ladder with tank on their back without help, let em dive, but make sure the dive sites and the dive conditions are tame enough to give them plenty of margin for error, cause sooner or later the weather will turn bad and conditions will dramatically deteriorate while you're on your surface inter val and you'll press your luck, or a dive site's conditions will change, or a dive master will miss read a dive sites conditions miscalculating a tidal current's time to change direction, there will be a sudden down current, the dive boat will catch on fire, run out of fuel, break down or have to leave you in the water for any number of reasons, or one of a thousand other things will eventually come along and then those diver's limitations are going to be a liability, how big and how fatal the out-come will be up to fate and chance.

I personally can think of many dives I've done in the past that got hairy that thinking back I wouldn't do them again if I suddenly acquired some physical limitations to my body.

Just a little over a year or so ago I did a shore dive in Maui that I got out of with just some scratches and bruises, diving with sketchy poor deteriorating weather conditions combined with a navigation mistake made me miss the proper exit on the return and had to haul up on iron shore with waves smashing me into the sharp lava and urchins, adding insult to injury I happened to have left my booties in the car and went in barefooted in my fins (was a sandy beach entry and planned exit) but lava, bare feet, urchins, pounding surf, was ugly and embarrassing but survivable with mostly my ego more bruised than my body. Had I been physically handicapped in some way it would have ended way, way, way worse.

**** happens, I'd like to have some physical margin of error on my side for when it does, cause the more you dive the more likely something is going to happen out of the ordinary. If you're on the razor's edge of margin you're going to end up an accident thread on scubaboard.

The old diver with the physical limitations may have read the weather better or not made the navigation mistake or just looked at that location and said there were too many things that could go wrong. Or they might just have a heart attack and die.

When you start drawing lines based on physical abilities you need to be careful. You may end up on the wrong side of the line. The vast majority of divers I see are old people, over 50, many over 60, lots over 70. And I dive mostly in the Pacific Northwest in conditions that are a little tough. I don't think the dive industry would survive taking us out of the buying pool.

 

[mmmbelows]

The old diver with the physical limitations may have read the weather better or not made the navigation mistake or just looked at that location and said there were too many things that could go wrong. Or they might just have a heart attack and die..

True. But the issue was the level of fitness in that situation not good sense and judgement which I obviously lacked. The issue isn't staying out of trouble, the only way to absolutely guarantee that is not to dive at all. The issue isn't staying out of trouble the issue is surviving trouble when you get into it. The smaller your physical margin of error is, the closer you're to injury or death in a situation gone hairy instead of walking away to dive another day.

---------- Post added December 29th, 2015 at 10:16 PM ----------

When you start drawing lines based on physical abilities you need to be careful. You may end up on the wrong side of the line. The vast majority of divers I see are old people, over 50, many over 60, lots over 70. And I dive mostly in the Pacific Northwest in conditions that are a little tough. I don't think the dive industry would survive taking us out of the buying pool.

Just the way it is, if you don't know your limitations due to your physical abilities and know when it's time to hang it up or scale it back, nature has a funny way of doing it permanently for you.

And us old people are leaving the dive industry, whether the dive industry wants us to or not we are leaving it through attrition, the dive industry will only survive with new blood coming in. They know it and that's the problem, reducing diving to something sold as easy, anybody can do it, in fact come do a discovery dive... another discussion on this forum is about such a phenomenon happening with a celebrity who was doing diving with only discovery dive training and it going bad on him. The dive industry is caught in a trap of wanting growth at the expense of safety. Growth at any cost, bring us your weak your tired your old your over-weight, it's just scuba diving anybody can do it...

 

[tracydr]

So if someone is obese or more heavy than they can handle and wants to dive - the weakling DM or cautious captain is going to say no - we don't want your money you are a liability?
Hmmmnnn - how well is that going to go over and what is going to happen to their business?

Not sure that is an option - you and only you are responsible for you...

I went on two big dive trips where one of the women was 300+ lbs,Same woman both trips.
Many of the guy passengers were complaining of sore backs from lugging her onto the rafts. It was a little scary to think what would happen if she were to pass out and need saving. She couldn't manage when she was doing well.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

I went on two big dive trips where one of the women was 300+ lbs,Same woman both trips.
Many of the guy passengers were complaining of sore backs from lugging her onto the rafts. It was a little scary to think what would happen if she were to pass out and need saving. She couldn't manage when she was doing well.

So forgive me I am not sure of your point - should she have been allowed to dive or not?
She obviously knew she was heavy and she is the one that should be responsible for the risk. I would help her once - after that she can help herself or find someone else willing to help or better yet she could call ahead and pay for additional DM's to assist her in and out of the water.

How about since Americans seem to be getting heavier (I can not comment on other countries with any facts) we incur a surcharge for all divers over 150 pounds. I would hope most crews can get 150 pound person dressed in scuba back into the boat.
The surcharge could be $20 a dive (not a trip) and would subsidize a crane for those that can not get back into the boat.
That way those that need it are being charged and those under the weight threshold are exempt. The crane can swing out of the way but is there for those that are just too big to be handled by the crew.

We just need the legislation enacted to make it happen...

 

[BRT]

True. But the issue was the level of fitness in that situation not good sense and judgement which I obviously lacked. The issue isn't staying out of trouble, the only way to absolutely guarantee that is not to dive at all. The issue isn't staying out of trouble the issue is surviving trouble when you get into it. The smaller your physical margin of error is, the closer you're to injury or death in a situation gone hairy instead of walking away to dive another day.

---------- Post added December 29th, 2015 at 10:16 PM ----------



Just the way it is, if you don't know your limitations due to your physical abilities and know when it's time to hang it up or scale it back, nature has a funny way of doing it permanently for you.

And us old people are leaving the dive industry, whether the dive industry wants us to or not we are leaving it through attrition, the dive industry will only survive with new blood coming in. They know it and that's the problem, reducing diving to something sold as easy, anybody can do it, in fact come do a discovery dive... another discussion on this forum is about such a phenomenon happening with a celebrity who was doing diving with only discovery dive training and it going bad on him. The dive industry is caught in a trap of wanting growth at the expense of safety. Growth at any cost, bring us your weak your tired your old your over-weight, it's just scuba diving anybody can do it...

The bad news is that old people are leaving diving. The "good" news is that old people are getting into diving. It is something that few young people want to take the time for or have the money to do.

 

[Centrals]

How about since Americans seem to be getting heavier (I can not comment on other countries with any facts) we incur a surcharge for all divers over 150 pounds. I would hope most crews can get 150 pound person dressed in scuba back into the boat.
The surcharge could be $20 a dive (not a trip) and would subsidize a crane for those that can not get back into the boat.
That way those that need it are being charged and those under the weight threshold are exempt. The crane can swing out of the way but is there for those that are just too big to be handled by the crew.

We just need the legislation enacted to make it happen...

Some of the dive boats that I had dived from have lift. Unfortunately, they are all tec boats.

 

[KevinNM]

Some of the dive boats that I had dived from have lift. Unfortunately, they are all tec boats.

I think Wookie mentioned there was no US Coast Guard approved lift for sale that he was aware of.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

I think Wookie mentioned there was no US Coast Guard approved lift for sale that he was aware of.

Nevermind - deleting a post

 

[george_austin]

Granted we are all going to die, but if that woman had collapsed on the fourth green, a call to 911 and CPR till the ambulance arrived could have saved her life. As it was she was left in the water without treatment due to her size, a problem you would not have on the fourth green. No, there is no water hazard on the fourth hole.

I do believe it is her choice, but it may not have been the best choice.



Bob

I agree in a very limited way that it is solely her choice -
Any person unfit physically is putting more than herself at risk (possibly) She is certainly creating a lot of trouble for the operator as well as traumatizing the other divers on this trip. Somebody collapses on the 4th green, well, no one would ever say that golfing was responsible for her death.

 

[drrich2]

I agree in a very limited way that it is solely her choice -
Any person unfit physically is putting more than herself at risk (possibly) She is certainly creating a lot of trouble for the operator as well as traumatizing the other divers on this trip. Somebody collapses on the 4th green, well, no one would ever say that golfing was responsible for her death.

Yeah, they'll say she should've gotten out & been more active. Maybe gotten involved in a sport with some activity that's usually not too physically demanding and can be tailored to the individual's needs (e.g.: pick your site/conditions). Perhaps a water sport with low impact to avoid overly stressing the joints?

Richard.