• Welcome to ScubaBoard


  1. Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

    Benefits of registering include

    • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
    • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
    • You can make this box go away

    Joining is quick and easy. Login or Register now by clicking on the button

Diving instructor faces court over death

Discussion in 'Diving Litigation' started by triminx145, Oct 7, 2010.

  1. triminx145

    triminx145 Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives:
    Location: Thailand
    19
    1
    Interesting "greed" theory there NetDoc. I don't have a problem with the training agencies. I have heard other dive "professionals" complain about the amount of money they (the agencies) charge for everything from teaching materials to instructor upgrades. However I don't believe that dive professionals (in general) think greed from training agencies is the main problem.

    I think that greed is a problem in this industry (as in any other). It costs more money (and takes more effort) for the operator to keep the equipment maintained in tip top condition than to let it slide a little. It costs more money to employ experienced and well qualified staff than it does to give a diver a "buddy" to show them the dive site (the buddy could be an open water diver) instead of a properly trained dive master.

    A lot of us have seen dive operators practicing outside the agency guidelines ESPECIALLY when it comes to certified divers and who leads them. It looks like greed to me when a dive store takes under qualified and / or under age divers to deep / advanced sites. Many instructors are asked to directly violate industry standards when teaching as well - often due to cost cutting.

    So self regulation is great in theory. As a responsible dive professional, seeing a problem within your dive operation, you consult with the manager and / or owner. If you feel that your concerns are not being taken seriously then you submit a formal complaint to the training agency.

    However you have a couple of problems there.
    1. The diving professional can't remain anonymous (obviously to protect the dive operator) and is therefore risking a back lash from the operator - a bigger and more powerful entity than the individual. Backlash could come in many forms, from losing the job to losing reputation or something really devious.
    2. Standards are vague when it comes to certified divers so it's one thing for the agency to say that a child of 14 years should not dive past 21m on a training dive. But I've witnessed (and protested against) kids of this age going to 40m on a fun dive. (Just an example issue).

    Of course, if you don't like the way things are, you can always leave, but that won't solve the problem - the dive operator will continue to operate with poor standards.

    I confess now that I don't know the solution to these problems, I feel that self regulation within our industry is not very effective. I don't know if government regulations are a help or hindrance (maybe a bit of both).

    I do know that when you work for a well organised dive operator, with well maintained equipment it's a pleasure but when you work for a "greedy" one it's a nightmare.

    I also know that this is all off the original subject of the thread but other people started talking about self regulation V government regulation, which is interesting for me because I don't know what the answer should be.

    Oh, and to everyone who has posted. Thank you for your balanced opinions and for NOT "condemn a state, an agency or even the instructor" we are all still learning, no matter how long we've been doing this for. Marinediva is spot on "If someone can learn something from them (mistakes) it is a good thing".
     
  2. vladimir

    vladimir Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location:
    38,293
    49,197
    From a liability perspective, we should all dive alone. If you're going to dive with a buddy, make sure he's at least as wealthy as you; then your heirs will at least have a ticket in the tort lottery to match the liability your estate has.
     
  3. The Chairman

    The Chairman Chairman of the Board Staff Member

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Cave Country!
    61,958
    30,422
    I hate it when people constantly harp on "Greed" when the reality is far less nefarious. Most people are in this business because they love to dive and they want to make a living at it. Greed has nothing to do with it, and I find the word inflammatory as well as inaccurate.

    That's not to say that economic forces do not play a factor and sometimes they are the dominate factor in any particular decision. But to categorically state that greed (excessive or rapacious desire) is the culprit shows an agenda to bolster one's ego at the expense of others. It's use is counter productive to understanding the situation.

    The Scuba industry is and will be in transition for the immediate future. Historically, in an effort to attract people to our sport we made education way too cheap. Subsequently, it's really not economically feasible for an instructor to have a small manageable class, even when the conditions merit it and they simply don't have the luxury of spending more time in the pool either. It's a delicate balancing act and a few are quick to assign intent that is simply not there. It's a matter of survival rather than greed and these instructors feel caught between a rock and a hard place.
     
  4. Rhone Man

    Rhone Man Divemaster

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: British Virgin Islands
    11,299
    10,729
    You know what they say: there is only one way to make a small fortune in diving. Start with a big fortune.
     
  5. Rick Murchison

    Rick Murchison Trusty Shellback ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: Gulf of Mexico
    13,348
    555
    You can bet those who do have never signed the checks!
    :)
    Rick
     
  6. Thalassamania

    Thalassamania Diving Polymath ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: On a large pile of smokin' A'a, the most isolated
    22,171
    2,774
    In the diving biz it oft greed at the agency level, and sometimes at the "successful" shop level, but at the everyday LDS it is more often long term desperation having settled in.
     
  7. Rhone Man

    Rhone Man Divemaster

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: British Virgin Islands
    11,299
    10,729
    I intuitively side with Pete on this one. People who use emotive words like "greed" and "deserve" (and "fair" is another one that really bugs me...) hide analysis behind value statements. Corporate greed is a mythical thing made up by trial lawyers to paint a demon. All for-profit corporations exist to generate returns for their stockholders, the same reason that people work for their salaries. Whether or not they are "greedy" depends upon whether you view their ways of generating wealth as "fair".

    And as for judging how much wealth a person "deserves" for what they do...
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2010
  8. mikemill

    mikemill Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Sacramento, CA
    2,647
    63
    Lets ignore the thousands of NPOs (which can be formed as a corporation).
     
  9. Rhone Man

    Rhone Man Divemaster

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: British Virgin Islands
    11,299
    10,729
    Better?
     
  10. spoolin01

    spoolin01 Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: SF Bay Area, CA
    1,633
    283
    That sage Gekko nailed it: greed works.

    I have to assume you had something else in mind than what this literally says.:idk: It's patently.... mystifying!

    Is there a more pertinent concept in the contemplation of human nature? Don't the behavioral scientists even try to explain 'noble' behavior as grounded in greed? This topic has gone down the rabbit hole...
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2010

Share This Page